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Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Without

Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Slateriesling said:
Does one really need to have a gun in the house to teach your kids the danger of a gun?

This would be equivalent to saying that parents should be alcoholic so their children learn not to drink to much.

I am writing this to point out a fallacy of logic, not to label gun owners as equivalent to alcoholics.
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First line of the OP:
After watching the story from that local Nashville TV station, I have some advice for parents who either don't own guns, or oppose them:
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Maybe you missed that part so I quoted it.

The point is that even if a person doesn't own a gun they should teach their children about gun safety. I think the reason that the experiment went the way it did is that people that have guns tend to spend more time teaching their children about gun safety since there is a risk factor there. People that don't own guns don't because they think there isn't any risk factor because they don't own guns.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Slateriesling said:
I think one should never use the word never in this type of statement. ;)

Children should be taught respect, perhaps fear of guns to avoid the "curiosity" danger. Emotions surrounding guns have reached the point that is not going to happen in public schools. I guess we are just going to have to assume that the gun owners are responsible enough to keep their weapons out of the hands of people who cannot handle the responsibility. Like children, mentally unstable, violent criminals, and people with so much hate in their heart they cannot control themselves.

I can assure you that no child will get hold of my guns without my supervision and careful training. Just as it was when I was a child.
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And you divert from gun safety in the home to homicidal maniacs in schools.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
Translation = When you can't refute the article, you attack the authors.

Try this. Refute the facts presented.

You dismissed nothing and still failed (refused?) to answer the question. The article was clear and so are the numbers. When there's a gun in a household, children are much more likely to be shot. And it exceeds the likelihood that it will be used for defense.
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Hughes writing about guns is like you or me writing about brain surgery. He is a partisan hack with no credentials other than "he hates da gun peeples".
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

TurtleDude said:
...

80% of such murders come from people banned from owning firearms. many of those "children" murdered are involved in illegal behavior or live in homes with those who engage in illegal behavior and cannot own firearms legally.

...
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Citation please.
 
Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those...

domer76 said:
Translation = When you can't refute the article, you attack the authors.

Try this. Refute the facts presented.

You dismissed nothing and still failed (refused?) to answer the question. The article was clear and so are the numbers. When there's a gun in a household, children are much more likely to be shot. And it exceeds the likelihood that it will be used for defense.
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It doesn't matter.

The point is that the children who are raised in houses with guns are themselves more responsible with firearms.

I think this sounds plausible. A child who has not been introduced to a firearm is less likely to appropriately appreciate a firearm.

I would think it would be good to introduce a child to a real firearm. They could hold a disabled firearm, unloaded with no pin, in their hands, satisfy that curiosity. They could hear and/or see a firearm being discharged so they can perceive the strength of the weapon. I don't see why anyone would oppose such an exercise.

It could put a meaningful dent on the number of deaths where a curious child picks up a gun and hurts someone by accident. I don't see how anyone could oppose offering such a precaution.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Grim17 said:
After watching the story from that local Nashville TV station, I have some advice for parents who either don't own guns, or oppose them:

"Just because in your home guns are out of sight, doesn't mean they should be out of mind when it comes to your children."




Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Without | News, Weather, Sports, Breaking News | WZTV
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Doesn't sound very surprising at all.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Grim17 said:
I never said that....

My point was, if you have children and you either don't own a gun, or oppose guns, or both, you should still take the time to fully introduce your children to hand guns (even if you use a blank gun or something) and make sure they understand without any doubt, that should they encounter one at a friends house or find one while playing, they should NEVER touch it PERIOD. Most kids of gun owners are taught this, but kids growing up in families that don't own guns, are never sat down and taught just how important it is not to touch a gun should they come across one.
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First, kudos for posting the study. It does indicate what we know: information, education, and knowledge prevents problems and creates safety. I do not own a gun. I have no interest in owning a gun. At the same time, I am aware of guns and how to respect them. To me, this is an important lesson for everyone to learn, especially children. Guns are not toys, and a child must be taught this. Parents do not need to own a gun or care anything about guns for this to be good information to impart to their children. They should do the same with drugs, alcohol, sex, and a whole host of other issues. Ignoring that any of these things exist only sets the child up to be unprepared and to be more likely to be in danger or have negative things happen. Someone else said that children should be taught about gun safety in school. I agree with that.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
Which child is more likely to get shot in the home? One with guns in the home or one without guns in the home?
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This is actually an illogical argument and doesn't prove what you want it to prove. If you put 100 children in homes with heroin and 100 children in homes without heroin, where is it more likely that you will find a child who uses heroin? You are trying to prove a position with UNEQUAL scenarios. The actual argument you would need to make to prove your point would be to see where children get shot more often, in a home, with guns, where they have been educated on guns or in a home, with guns where they have not. If both are equal, then you would be correct, guns are the problem.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
OK, so you're not INTENTIONALLY obtuse. Naturally obtuse, then.
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Moderator's Warning:
Knock off the personal crap.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
I don't see how the question could be clearer. Is a child more likely to get shot in a home WITH a gun in it or in a home WITHOUT a gun in it?

Gun deaths in children: Statistics show firearms endanger kids despite NRA safety programs.
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The logical answer is yes. However, "more likely" does not portray the actual risk. While they may be "more likely" the actual risk of it occurring is less than one out of 6000 assuming 1/3 of gun owners have or have had children in their household. Given 12 children out of 1000 are abused each year, the risk of gun deaths is comparatively, very, very low. Life is all about risk and mitigation. BTW, children are more likely to choke on a hotdog while eating hot dogs than those who do not eat hotdogs. Same logic.
 
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Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Aunt Spiker said:
Ha ha
We were talking about 'how to teach kids about firearm safety' when their parents aren't remotely involved with firearms.
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Maybe that is why I tried giving some hints on what to say and do, or maybe you could find someone that can teach them. Come on now I have seen your postings on this site and know darn well that you are plenty smart enough to know how to deal with the issue to make sure your children or grandchildren are well informed and hence safer. Education and Common Sense always Trumps Ignorance one has to look no further than this thread to see what Ignorance will get a person.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
Translation = When you can't refute the article, you attack the authors.

Try this. Refute the facts presented.

You dismissed nothing and still failed (refused?) to answer the question. The article was clear and so are the numbers. When there's a gun in a household, children are much more likely to be shot. And it exceeds the likelihood that it will be used for defense.
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How likely? What is the actual risk? Need that information to make an educated choice. Otherwise it is an appeal to emotion and suitable only for those that do not take the time to understand the actual risk.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

BretJ said:
How likely? What is the actual risk? Need that information to make an educated choice. Otherwise it is an appeal to emotion and suitable only for those that do not take the time to understand the actual risk.
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What number would make the difference to you? The basic facts are this. The cute little video flies in the face of reality. That the two kids just happened to not pick up the gun in that staged scenario is irrelevant. The facts are that with a gun in the house, they are more likely to be shot with it than with no gun in the house and it exceeds the likelihood of using that gun in self-defense. Don't like that reality? Sorry, I can't change that for you.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Absentglare said:
Citation please.
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its been posted on this board dozens of times in the past. do some research

I tire of people who try to derail points they don't like by demanding we constantly prove stuff that has been proven dozens of times

If you HONESTLY believed this was not true, your request might have some merit. But your track record is such of ignoring factual evidence that goes against your belief system
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
What number would make the difference to you? The basic facts are this. The cute little video flies in the face of reality. That the two kids just happened to not pick up the gun in that staged scenario is irrelevant. The facts are that with a gun in the house, they are more likely to be shot with it than with no gun in the house and it exceeds the likelihood of using that gun in self-defense. Don't like that reality? Sorry, I can't change that for you.
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again many of those cases of a "gun in the home" are guns that have not been in the home prior to the shooting so keeping one's home gun free is no guarantee that someone else won't bring one in-especially if your home is one where people engage in irresponsible behavior consuming narcotics, alcohol etc.


being afraid of guns is going to create kids most likely to have problems with guns when they ultimately encounter firearms
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

TurtleDude said:
again many of those cases of a "gun in the home" are guns that have not been in the home prior to the shooting so keeping one's home gun free is no guarantee that someone else won't bring one in-especially if your home is one where people engage in irresponsible behavior consuming narcotics, alcohol etc.


being afraid of guns is going to create kids most likely to have problems with guns when they ultimately encounter firearms
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Not to mention that unless one keeps their children locked up at home they are bound to eventually go into a home or other place where guns are present. Then it is the ignorant child that ends up making a mistake, some seem to believe ignorance is bliss, that is until they fall on their face and then they whine that someone should have warned them. One can lead a jackass to water only so many times before realizing that the thing is just too stupid to drink when it is offered.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

Casper said:
Not to mention that unless one keeps their children locked up at home they are bound to eventually go into a home or other place where guns are present. Then it is the ignorant child that ends up making a mistake, some seem to believe ignorance is bliss, that is until they fall on their face and then they whine that someone should have warned them. One can lead a jackass to water only so many times before realizing that the thing is just too stupid to drink when it is offered.
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Gun Banners are all about getting rid of pro gun voters. Children who are taught about firearms are less likely to buy into the lies Bannites spew. By the time my son was NINE he would see Bannites on TV claiming that an AR 15 can shoot Hundreds of Rounds in a Minute" and he'd note the Bannite was a LIAR.

Bannites are worried that if you teach children GUN SAFETY you will teach them how to use guns and thus inoculate them against the lies the Anti gun movement spews in its effort to make people afraid of guns

Bannites want ignorant children who are more likely to buy into their lies and more likely to do something stupid when they encounter a firearm over children who are well trained
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

TurtleDude said:
again many of those cases of a "gun in the home" are guns that have not been in the home prior to the shooting so keeping one's home gun free is no guarantee that someone else won't bring one in-especially if your home is one where people engage in irresponsible behavior consuming narcotics, alcohol etc.


being afraid of guns is going to create kids most likely to have problems with guns when they ultimately encounter firearms
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Lordy
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
Lordy
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truth. People who understand guns are not likely to engage in the sort of idiocy we see from Bannites. Like those idiotic Dem politicians who think an AR 15 can actually shoot several hundred rounds in a minute or this idiocy

These are the people who agree with you. these are the people who want to pass laws against guns

these are the morons who prove how intellectually deficient the Bannite movement is




 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
What number would make the difference to you? The basic facts are this. The cute little video flies in the face of reality. That the two kids just happened to not pick up the gun in that staged scenario is irrelevant. The facts are that with a gun in the house, they are more likely to be shot with it than with no gun in the house and it exceeds the likelihood of using that gun in self-defense. Don't like that reality? Sorry, I can't change that for you.
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Reality shows the risk is very, very minimal. Just like any number of other things. Using "more likely" without fully qualifying the mitigating circumstances, is an appeal to emotion and is vacuous at best. Same logic as stating, "You are more likely to become an alcoholic if you have alcohol in the home." Logically correct. Reality agrees, however the actual practical risk is almost nothing. Just like you statement.

Do not get me wrong, I get pissed off every time I see stupid, preventable stuff that kills kids all the time. All for educating parents on gun safety vice specious little memes such as your "more likely" statement.

What the gun is there for, whether sport, self defense or otherwise, is irrelevant to the discussion.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

TurtleDude said:
truth. People who understand guns are not likely to engage in the sort of idiocy we see from Bannites. Like those idiotic Dem politicians who think an AR 15 can actually shoot several hundred rounds in a minute or this idiocy

These are the people who agree with you. these are the people who want to pass laws against guns

these are the morons who prove how intellectually deficient the Bannite movement is




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You make the mistaken assumption I know nothing about guns. One of many on your part.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
You make the mistaken assumption I know nothing about guns. One of many on your part.
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You don't know anything about the foundations upon which the constitution was built upon or the fact that none of the schemes you support have any hope of substantially diminishing violent crime

and those politicians are your leaders. They speak for people like you

given your reticence to tell us who you support in the 2016 election, we have to assume you are a Cankles fan boy
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

BretJ said:
Reality shows the risk is very, very minimal. Just like any number of other things. Using "more likely" without fully qualifying the mitigating circumstances, is an appeal to emotion and is vacuous at best. Same logic as stating, "You are more likely to become an alcoholic if you have alcohol in the home." Logically correct. Reality agrees, however the actual practical risk is almost nothing. Just like you statement.

Do not get me wrong, I get pissed off every time I see stupid, preventable stuff that kills kids all the time. All for educating parents on gun safety vice specious little memes such as your "more likely" statement.

What the gun is there for, whet
her sport, self defense or otherwise, is irrelevant to the discussion.
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It's rather pathetic to see all the hoops, twists and turns the gun violence apologists make to alter the simple fact that I submitted. "Well, if guns were brought into the home...."
"Well, if they went to another house..."
"Well, if an untrained kid came to your house..."

The inescapable fact is this. A gun in your house makes it more likely that your kid will be shot with it, or someone else in your household, than it will be used for self defense. So the idea you are safer with a gun in your home is just a myth.
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

TurtleDude said:
You don't know anything about the foundations upon which the constitution was built upon or the fact that none of the schemes you support have any hope of substantially diminishing violent crime

and those politicians are your leaders. They speak for people like you

given your reticence to tell us who you support in the 2016 election, we have to assume you are a Cankles fan boy
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Astounding someone has such a terrible track record with their assumptions
 
Re: Experiment Shows Differences Between Children With Guns in the Home and Those Wit

domer76 said:
Astounding someone has such a terrible track record with their assumptions
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who are you supporting in 2016? and why is it that every gun restrictionist on this board is a left winger?
 
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