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Georgia business owner requires all employees to carry guns at work

NonoBadDog

NonoBadDog

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Georgia business owner requires all employees to carry guns at work
A Georgia business owner is requiring all of his employees to get concealed carry permits and is supplying them with guns.
Lance Toland, the owner of Lance Toland Associates, an aviation insurance company based in Atlanta, ordered his workers to obtain weapons permits after hearing about recent home invasions and violent crime in the area, a local ABC affiliate reported.

Once an employee has obtained a license, Mr. Toland presents them with a gun known as “the judge.”
Mr. Toland told ABC that the five-shot pistol is one of the most effective self-defense weapons and he wants his employees to carry them openly in the office.
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Mr. Toland said all of his employees obtained permits within four weeks after he announced the policy, which he issued out of concern for his employees’ safety.
“I have a number of offices, and most of my employees are women,” Mr. Toland told ABC.
The policy could expand to larger businesses. Mr. Toland said several high-profile business owners whose planes his company insures have expressed admiration for his policy.
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/feb/23/lance-toland-ga-business-owner-requires-all-employ/

Now this is an employer that cares.
 
he wants his employees to carry them openly in the office.
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Until there's a disagreement among his employees(And there ALWAYS are, it's a fact), or he has to lay someone off, or fire them. Then we'll see how well this policy works.
 
The liability questions raised by a potential shooting from an employee using the company supplied gun are rather interesting. I wonder the circumstances under which the employer could be held liable - does it turn on general respondeat superior liability issues like whether the employee was acting on their own or acting at the behest of the employer? If the shooting occurs when the employee is not on company grounds - will it turn on whether the employee was frolicking or taking a detour?
 
Private employer, not much else to say other than the public has every right to respond. Seek employment or not, do business or not all become debatable because of that decision.

In the long term it may not be all that wise as he is injecting his business model into a political debate, odds are there will be some consequence.
 
NonoBadDog said:
Now this is an employer that cares.
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About what though? I’d suggest politics and a bit of cheap PR.

A wider scheme promoting home and personal security (which could well include getting a gun) would show better care for his employees. Requiring them all to get a concealed-carry permit shows headline grabbing.
 
HonestJoe said:
About what though? I’d suggest politics and a bit of cheap PR.

A wider scheme promoting home and personal security (which could well include getting a gun) would show better care for his employees. Requiring them all to get a concealed-carry permit shows headline grabbing.
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Did you read the article?

Once an employee has obtained a license, Mr. Toland presents them with a gun known as “the judge.”
Click to expand...
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
Until there's a disagreement among his employees(And there ALWAYS are, it's a fact), or he has to lay someone off, or fire them. Then we'll see how well this policy works.
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well in cases of disgruntled employees shooting people-that happens in businesses were people don't carry guns. Its funny, I have been patronizing a gun range for years and people get fired every once in a while. Indeed two long time loyal employees were framed for bookkeeping errors and subjected to false arrest but ultimately cleared. You have to cary to work at that range and no one was shot. Since someone intending murder is going to obtain or have a gun no matter what the rules are-only fools think a disarmed pool of targets is a good idea.
 
TurtleDude said:
well in cases of disgruntled employees shooting people-that happens in businesses were people don't carry guns. Its funny, I have been patronizing a gun range for years and people get fired every once in a while. Indeed two long time loyal employees were framed for bookkeeping errors and subjected to false arrest but ultimately cleared. You have to cary to work at that range and no one was shot. Since someone intending murder is going to obtain or have a gun no matter what the rules are-only fools think a disarmed pool of targets is a good idea.
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Good point!!! When was the last time you heard of a workplace shooting at a gun range or firearms shop???
 
faithful_servant said:
Good point!!! When was the last time you heard of a workplace shooting at a gun range or firearms shop???
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my favorite is the GRAND AMERICAN Trap shoot-been going on for over 100 years

thousands of people carrying 12G shotguns and at least 105 rounds of ammo each

millions of dollars of guns for sale-some by private citizens, others by the hundred Plus gun dealers

hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money at stake

guys what-no one ever shot there

one of the safest places in the world to be where just about everyone is armed

same with the Camp Perry National rifle and pistol championships

Lots of "Assault weapons"-AR 15s, M14 Style Rifles and MI Garands
Semi Auto pistols-hundreds of them
Millions of rounds of ammo
 
NonoBadDog said:
Did you read the article?
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Yes, my point was that his “scheme” appears to consist of having the gun alone when personal safety and home security (the purported motive) includes much more than that. It’s not even clear how much (if any) training these new gun-owners are getting with their weapons. The bottom line is that it’s all about the gun (which attracts attention and grabs headlines) rather than a wider (a less interesting) question of safety and security.
 
NonoBadDog said:
Georgia business owner requires all employees to carry guns at work




Lance Toland, Ga. business owner, requires all employees to carry guns at work - Washington Times

Now this is an employer that cares.
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But is it legal?

Unless a gun is a working tool of trade for the employee's job duties, I'm not sure of the legality of the employer's additional demand above the normal workload to be performed.

I'm not sure what to make of this, but I find it weird and intrusive to the employee.

This might be another case heading to the courts.
 
TurtleDude said:
well in cases of disgruntled employees shooting people-that happens in businesses were people don't carry guns. Its funny, I have been patronizing a gun range for years and people get fired every once in a while. Indeed two long time loyal employees were framed for bookkeeping errors and subjected to false arrest but ultimately cleared. You have to cary to work at that range and no one was shot. Since someone intending murder is going to obtain or have a gun no matter what the rules are-only fools think a disarmed pool of targets is a good idea.
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I'm not going to get into this much more. But I worked for 40 years, I broke up pushing between fellow employees, and even fist fights. At one 'down sizing' the cops were called because a few people being let go made threats. Do they all do it? No, but giving them another weapon doesn't make sense.

The pro-gun people go on and on about how these mass work place shootings are very rare, but then when a story like this comes up the reason they defend it is because it might prevent workplace shootings. If they are indeed rare, then arming everyone isn't needed.

If this employer is really concerned about his employees then all he needs to do is hire a security guard.
 
OrphanSlug said:
Private employer, not much else to say other than the public has every right to respond. Seek employment or not, do business or not all become debatable because of that decision.

In the long term it may not be all that wise as he is injecting his business model into a political debate, odds are there will be some consequence.
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Private employer yes, but he still has to meet basic employment law & OSHA regs, though I believe there is a minimum amount of employer size for many of these regs to kick-in. The real test may come if this catches on with bigger employers. Non-gun-owners are not a protected group, so at least he's got that going for him.

We also have seen the occasional small southern town that has required every domicile to have a firearm, which never gets enforced likely to avoid a court challenge. No idea if these domicile type of laws have survived a Constitutional challenge.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm not going to get into this much more. But I worked for 40 years, I broke up pushing between fellow employees, and even fist fights. At one 'down sizing' the cops were called because a few people being let go made threats. Do they all do it? No, but giving them another weapon doesn't make sense.

The pro-gun people go on and on about how these mass work place shootings are very rare, but then when a story like this comes up the reason they defend it is because it might prevent workplace shootings. If they are indeed rare, then arming everyone isn't needed.

If this employer is really concerned about his employees then all he needs to do is hire a security guard.
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I agree.

Forcing an employee to carry a gun, unless required for the employee's performance of their duties, sounds like an unreasonable encroachment on the employee. Then again, I already feel employers have encroached quite a bit; I'm against random drug-testing, for instance.
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm not going to get into this much more. But I worked for 40 years, I broke up pushing between fellow employees, and even fist fights. At one 'down sizing' the cops were called because a few people being let go made threats. Do they all do it? No, but giving them another weapon doesn't make sense.

The pro-gun people go on and on about how these mass work place shootings are very rare, but then when a story like this comes up the reason they defend it is because it might prevent workplace shootings. If they are indeed rare, then arming everyone isn't needed.

If this employer is really concerned about his employees then all he needs to do is hire a security guard.
Click to expand...

when most of the states were contemplating allowing CCW permits, the Anti gun braying jackasses in the form of Sarah Brady, Josh Sugarmann and their toadies in congress, all started claiming there would be "blood in the streets" and gun fights over parking spaces during Christmas shopping etc. state after state passed those laws with those dire predictions failing to materialize but the Brady scum kept claiming the same doom and gloom

hasn't happened. not even in high stress work environments like the police (and btw, cops and soldiers have higher rates of suicide than most occupations)
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
I'm not going to get into this much more. But I worked for 40 years, I broke up pushing between fellow employees, and even fist fights. At one 'down sizing' the cops were called because a few people being let go made threats. Do they all do it? No, but giving them another weapon doesn't make sense.

The pro-gun people go on and on about how these mass work place shootings are very rare, but then when a story like this comes up the reason they defend it is because it might prevent workplace shootings. If they are indeed rare, then arming everyone isn't needed.

If this employer is really concerned about his employees then all he needs to do is hire a security guard.
Click to expand...

An armed society tends to be a polite society. Nobody wants to be stabbed shot, or whatever. Even if you are getting laid off.
 
TurtleDude said:
well in cases of disgruntled employees shooting people-that happens in businesses were people don't carry guns. Its funny, I have been patronizing a gun range for years and people get fired every once in a while. Indeed two long time loyal employees were framed for bookkeeping errors and subjected to false arrest but ultimately cleared. You have to cary to work at that range and no one was shot. Since someone intending murder is going to obtain or have a gun no matter what the rules are-only fools think a disarmed pool of targets is a good idea.
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well, that singular example certainly proves the rule

that employer is rolling the dice that ALL of his employees are mentally stable, skilled in arms safety, and not prone to hostile behavior
because when he compelled ALL employees to carry, because of off-the-work-site issues, he placed his company in jeopardy of liability
the company is in the insurance business, so the owner will not be able to insist he was unaware of his arbitrarily imposed risks to his work force, patrons, workers' families, and all with whom they come into contact
 
TurtleDude said:
when most of the states were contemplating allowing CCW permits, the Anti gun braying jackasses in the form of Sarah Brady, Josh Sugarmann and their toadies in congress, all started claiming there would be "blood in the streets" and gun fights over parking spaces during Christmas shopping etc. state after state passed those laws with those dire predictions failing to materialize but the Brady scum kept claiming the same doom and gloom

hasn't happened. not even in high stress work environments like the police (and btw, cops and soldiers have higher rates of suicide than most occupations)
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I call them 'pro gun people'. You call people you disagree with 'braying jack-asses'.

You seem like you can't post anything without name calling anymore.

Anyway gives me a great excuse to bow out.
 
I carried a revolver everyday for 4 1/2 years while working for a real estate broker as a field services tech. I worked some pretty bad neighborhoods around Hampton Roads. The newer female agents would have a fit when they saw the gun laying on my desk, and would sneak into the bosses office to squeal on me. He would just laugh and tell them about the .40 Glock he had in his drawer. They got used to it, and a some of them started going to the range with me and the boss. A few bought their own after a while because they felt unsafe with many of the abandoned properties we had in the inventory.
 
I am torn on this, but I have to side against the employer here-- inherent to every natural right is the right not to exercise that right. Even though I have dreams of running a business in which I would want all of my employees armed... I cannot support allowing employers to make it mandatory for their employees to own and carry a weapon, even if he supplied the weapon itself.

On the other hand, I do applaud the man's foresight and generosity in pursuing this policy and providing the weapons to his employees. It does show that he truly cares for their well-being.
 
TurtleDude said:
when most of the states were contemplating allowing CCW permits, the Anti gun braying jackasses in the form of Sarah Brady, Josh Sugarmann and their toadies in congress, all started claiming there would be "blood in the streets" and gun fights over parking spaces during Christmas shopping etc. state after state passed those laws with those dire predictions failing to materialize but the Brady scum kept claiming the same doom and gloom. hasn't happened. not even in high stress work environments like the police (and btw, cops and soldiers have higher rates of suicide than most occupations)
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Then a gain the braying jackasses in the give everyone a 'gun' crowd didn't exactly turn the tide on crime by having CCW permits. Fact is even in the states with the most 'friendly' CCW states the number of people who actually get a CCW are routinely carry is a tiny fraction of the adult population.

So the NRA leadership scum didn't change the dynamic a whit, just used the issue to drum up huge bucks to pay for big offices and high dollar suits for K street lobbyists and (shudder) lawyers....

Personally I think the business owner is an idiot and i don't think highly of the CCW weapon he gifts his employees. (bet ya a coke he picked it for the name and look) :peace
 
Korimyr the Rat said:
On the other hand, I do applaud the man's foresight and generosity in pursuing this policy and providing the weapons to his employees. It does show that he truly cares for their well-being.
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If he TRULY cared about his employees he'd provide a kick ass health, eye, dental plan for them and their families, if I really feel the need to go armed I can buy a better weapon myself, thankuverimuch... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
... if I really feel the need to go armed I can buy a better weapon myself, thankuverimuch... :peace
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A terrible weapon is better than no weapon at all when you need one. If his employees want to carry better weapons, they can buy better weapons themselves.

In the meantime, they are better off than they were.
 
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