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Cleaning guns safely

Crosscheck

Crosscheck

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This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
 
Not "accidents will happen". Negligent discharges will happen.
 
If you manage to discharge a round while cleaning a reasonably modern firearm you definitely did something remarkably stupid. There is a little more issue with a muzzle loader but anything that loads from the breach....you screwed up bad.

The first thing you do when working on a firearm is to insure that no ammunition is in the thing. The magazine is removed, the bolt is opened and you visually inspect to insure you can see daylight down the barrel. The only way I can really see anything going wrong is if you have your finger on the trigger while unloading or reloading.

I haven't tried it but I suspect that even if you totally screwed up and left a cartridge in the pipe then slammed it with a cleaning rod you wouldn't generate enough force to fire the primer. Of course if you did that then you'd be as likely to get a cleaning rod back through your chin as anyone on the other end would be to get shot.
 
Either you clear the chamber and remove the rounds, or you don't. If it fires a round, it's because you're a dumbass. If you shoot someone while cleaning your gun, you are insanely negligent.
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

some handguns have magazine disconnects meaning you cannot fire a cartridge in the barrel if the magazine is removed. several cops have been saved by this feature as they were able to release the magazine while struggling with a mope for control of the pistol. But the military has banned this feature on M9s because a pistol without a magazine can still be used as a single shot weapon if it doesn't have that feature

Most of the AD's I have heard of involved people thinking they have cleared a weapon when they hadn't. One I saw was a case where the shooter had two identical pistols and cleared one and then was distracted. came back and picked up the one he thought he cleared and pulled the trigger

it was loaded but fortunately he followed the first rule of handgun safety=that being he pointed it in a safe direction
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...
First, sorry to hear about those unfortunate incidents. This type of thing is rare but preventable and thus always a horrible thing to hear.

My thoughts on the matter have been stated here previously but it boils down to a few things. First, and this does happen to many experienced owners, but it boils down to overestimating one's knowledge. No one is ever too good to check the chamber and the magazine well, it is one thing I remind myself every time I put hands on my firearm to clean, oil, or finish it. I always release magazine, clear chamber, check chamber, and double check barrel to insure there isn't a "floater" that lodged in unnoticed(rare but possible on some models).

Second, some people could do with a little more safety practice, the problem is many of them do not know they are negligent and unfortunately they aren't necessarily doing these unsafe things in the presence of better shooters who could walk them through the errors.

Third. There wouldn't really be a way IMO to create a safety that would eliminate these types of NDs because the firearm did what it was supposed to do, unfortunately the owner didn't. This type of mechanism would be basically a planned failure which could either create a situation where the firearm either doesn't discharge a bullet with tragic results during a defense situation or worse yet cause a major body malfunction on the gun and these can have horrendous endings.
 
I've never had a problem while cleaning a gun. I don't know why this is considered an issue. You just unload the damn thing then put the rounds away, then you clean and reassemble... THEN you reload.



I doubt it happens as often as the rumor mill claims.
 
Goshin said:
I've never had a problem while cleaning a gun. I don't know why this is considered an issue. You just unload the damn thing then put the rounds away, then you clean and reassemble... THEN you reload.



I doubt it happens as often as the rumor mill claims.
Click to expand...

Yes, I would bet the excuse of it went off while being cleaned is just a story told to the cops
 
LaMidRighter said:
First, sorry to hear about those unfortunate incidents. This type of thing is rare but preventable and thus always a horrible thing to hear.

My thoughts on the matter have been stated here previously but it boils down to a few things. First, and this does happen to many experienced owners, but it boils down to overestimating one's knowledge. No one is ever too good to check the chamber and the magazine well, it is one thing I remind myself every time I put hands on my firearm to clean, oil, or finish it. I always release magazine, clear chamber, check chamber, and double check barrel to insure there isn't a "floater" that lodged in unnoticed(rare but possible on some models).

Second, some people could do with a little more safety practice, the problem is many of them do not know they are negligent and unfortunately they aren't necessarily doing these unsafe things in the presence of better shooters who could walk them through the errors.

Third. There wouldn't really be a way IMO to create a safety that would eliminate these types of NDs because the firearm did what it was supposed to do, unfortunately the owner didn't. This type of mechanism would be basically a planned failure which could either create a situation where the firearm either doesn't discharge a bullet with tragic results during a defense situation or worse yet cause a major body malfunction on the gun and these can have horrendous endings.
Click to expand...


You are correct they are rare occurrences.

I do not know the husband and wife but according to news story they are both military veterans probably in 30's.

The friend of mine is a retired lineman. I know there is this immediate reaction to think he just must be a dumbass but if you could meet him that impression would quickly disappear. He is not the squirrelly little guy with the 5 hair pony tail you see at the gun show. He has taught all his grandkids on use of guns and taken them hunting. It is inexcusable what he did and he readily admits that.

It just goes to show you no matter how many years you have own guns you can never shortcut such a simple routine.
 
Stupid will get you killed. Or others... :(

Sad part is, even the smartest person you know can have a momentary lapse of reason and make an error.

There are certain things in my life that are conditioned. Turn off the oven after the cake is baked. Put my keys and wallet in my little basket. Unplug my amp before opening it up. Utmost careful zipping my pants. Putting on my seatbelt.

I have included in that list of condition behaviors, gun safety.

Sure, I am subject to a brain fart as well as the next guy. But it will never involve the aforementioned. I check my list and I check it twice. I am confident what I say is true. And..... it doesn't hurt to pray.
 
Crovax said:
Yes, I would bet the excuse of it went off while being cleaned is just a story told to the cops
Click to expand...




Or told by families to hide a suicide. I know of that happening for a fact.
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

Moron doesn't clear the chamber..........another dead person.
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

If they could make stupidity illegal it would solve 99% of the problems in the world. It is easy to check to see if a gun is loaded.
 
Crosscheck said:
You are correct they are rare occurrences.

I do not know the husband and wife but according to news story they are both military veterans probably in 30's.

The friend of mine is a retired lineman. I know there is this immediate reaction to think he just must be a dumbass but if you could meet him that impression would quickly disappear. He is not the squirrelly little guy with the 5 hair pony tail you see at the gun show. He has taught all his grandkids on use of guns and taken them hunting. It is inexcusable what he did and he readily admits that.

It just goes to show you no matter how many years you have own guns you can never shortcut such a simple routine.
Click to expand...
Exactly right, at the end of the day firearms shouldn't be feared or obsessed over, they are dangerous tools if improperly handled and that is something everyone can agree on. The best policy is to always adhere to strict safety practices and never divert from that, I had one ND in my life and it fortunately didn't result in any harm but it taught me to always go through every step of gun safety every time. It only takes once to skip a step to be tragic and it's not necessarily stupidity but rather negligence.
 
This incident shows the importance what Turtledude said about the first rule of safety being to point the gun in a safe direction all the time. If this rule is followed, even an accident is not fatal.
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

Step One: Remove all the bullets from the gun.

Step Two: Check to make sure.

Step Three: Clean....
 
Captain Adverse said:
Step One: Remove all the bullets from the gun.

Step Two: Check to make sure.

Step Three: Clean....
Click to expand...

on my Key chain I have a 6" rod 9mm in caliber called a DE-JAMMER that Massad Ayoob gave me for helping him at one of his LFI seminars in Ohio over 20 years ago. when I clear a gun-especially when I don't have reading glasses on or in low light, I lock the slide back after dropping the mag and racking the slide and put that rod down the barrel until I see it on the other side of the barrel. You see I am aware of an AD where someone racked the slide after dropping the mag. Sadly,they had a reload that was slightly oversized and a broken extractor meaning that the shell remained in the barrel and they didn't actually look hard enough and when they dropped the slide and hammer-boom. No one got hurt but the shooter suffered an embarrassing "laundry issue" and a wall in the range was pockmarked as a result
 
There is no such thing as a gun that is not loaded.
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

One must assume that cleaning involves some safety precautions such as unloading and clearing the gun. If that is not done correctly ie magazine only removed and the dufus cleaning the gun does that with a finger on the trigger.... My bet is most these happen with pistols and rifles.

Sometimes things happen beyond your control. I had an AD with a reloaded 9mmP. I carried my FN with one on the chamber hammer down. As I released the slide and it closed the gun fired. I could find no firing pin mark on the primer which I checked. Not even the slightest indentation. Even if I had the trigger back it should not have fired. Luckily safety of pointing the gun in a harmless direction saw only a divot in the concrete and a wounded invoice book. I still do not know why.

AD's happen which is why all safety rules must be followed and that means muzzle control even while cleaning or examining.
 
Captain Adverse said:
Step One: Remove all the bullets from the gun.

Step Two: Check to make sure.

Step Three: Clean....
Click to expand...

Shame on you. A bullet is the bit that comes out the front. :lol:
 
Crosscheck said:
This thread has nothing to do about CCP, pro-guns, or anti-guns. Ok , got that out of the way.

Just last week in our city a guy was cleaning his pistol and it went off killing his wife in the next room. Few years ago a great guy I know who I always felt was a gun expert shot himself in the arm cleaning a pistol.


Am certain it just comes down to laziness in not properly checking your weapon. Is there a need for some type of safety mechanism to prevent this? It doesn't seem it should be that hard to tell if a gun is loaded or not.

Or I guess it comes down to the old adage that accidents are going to happen. That is why I have bandages in my shop.
Click to expand...

The main safety device that ALL guns come with is right between a persons ears, failure to use it properly is the fault of the owner.
 
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