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Concealed permit

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ludin

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Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...
I actually do not believe the shield comes in 45.

Regardless for a gun as small as the options you're looking at, you want to go with 9 mm simply because larger calibers reduce your ammunition capacity. All this BS about 9 mm not having adequate stopping power is just that. Modern self defense ammunition eliminates the need for a larger round.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I actually do not believe the shield comes in 45.

Regardless for a gun as small as the options you're looking at, you want to go with 9 mm simply because larger calibers reduce your ammunition capacity. All this BS about 9 mm not having adequate stopping power is just that. Modern self defense ammunition eliminates the need for a larger round.
Click to expand...

ok sorry the shield comes in a .40 round.

yea most .40 or .45 only hold like 5 or 6 +1.
9mm hold 9 or 10+1.

of course if you need that many you probably shouldn't be shooting, but more is never a bad thing.

still out of those 2 they both get great reviews from what I have read. I guess it will have to come down to shooting them.
to see what one I like better.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I actually do not believe the shield comes in 45.

Regardless for a gun as small as the options you're looking at, you want to go with 9 mm simply because larger calibers reduce your ammunition capacity. All this BS about 9 mm not having adequate stopping power is just that. Modern self defense ammunition eliminates the need for a larger round.
Click to expand...

EMNofSeattle is right.

There are plenty of options for both concealed carry and home defense where a 9mm with the right ammunition will be very effective.

With the Springfield XD line up you have several options on gun frame dimension and barrel length, go to a location where you can try a few of them out in 9mm or .40 cal and odds are one will work quite well for your thinking. If not that, then look at the various carry models from SIG Sauer. Same thing, several frames and barrel lengths to consider in the 9mm or .40 cal.

Because of how a .45 fires I would not recommend one for carry unless the person was *well experienced* with that sort of gun and caliber. That round is really best in a standard frame where balance is more considered.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...

Leaving "stoppigng power" out of it is a good place to start. People are stopped (aka killed) by hitting the brain, brian stem or loss of blood - which is a result of shot placement and not bullet size or speed. Most will agree that once you get above the 'mouse gun", .22, .25, or .32 (some will even even include .38 or .380 but I do not) any well placed shot(s) will git-r-done. It is also amazng that people include magazine capacity in the same discussion -.if one shot (or two max) does the trick then the rest are needed only if you face multiple bad guys or you did not place the shot(s) well.

Obviously, these two factors (having larger rounds and carrying more of them) work against each other in a CC gun. Assuming that you define a CC gun with smaller dimensions as better. IMHO, having 15 rounds of .380 is better than having 8 rounds of .45 since just making noise (not having made well placed shots) does not have much "stopping power".

The best gun is one that you, personally, can shoot well, with a comfortable grip, good grip angle (for pointing) and not so much recoil that it wears you out or is hard to get fast follow-up shots. That might vary between one with a big paw and one with a smaller hand - something else to keep in mind for planning that both you and your wife get matching CC pistols.

A "good" CC gun is one that is easy to carry and easy to shoot - falling short in either of those areas makes the "stopping power" unlikely to ever be an issue since it won't likley be carried often enough. I like this pistol (Taurus PT638) for its CC possibilities, small dimensions, 15+1 capacity, good safety features and its ease of shooting:

American Rifleman | The Taurus PT638 Pro SA .380 ACP

Taurus also makes other good CC pistols (of other calibres) in their Millenium Pro series.

Taurus Millennium Pro G2 9mm Semiautomatic Pistol | Academy
 
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Suggestion for new buyers, go to a gun shop that has a range that allows you to shoot the guns you are considering, no gun is good for everyone, the gun has to work for the individual. So every person should pick their own gun.
For new gun owners I would suggest staying away from the larger calibers such as the .45, the recoil will make it harder to learn and the ammo is far more expensive, a quality 9mm or .380 will do the trick. Speaking of which, buy plenty of ammo and go out and shoot on a regular basis, having a gun is pointless if you are not proficient in using it, that includes learning to clear jams and clean it. Do not go cheap on the ammo, a good defense round, it will say so on the box, is always best.
Not a big fan of S&W autos, Springfield is good, would also consider Glock (tried and true) and Bersa if you are on a budget but well made and reliable.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Leaving "stoppigng power" out of it is a good place to start. People are stopped (aka killed) by hitting the brain, brian stem or loss of blood - which is a result of shot placement and not bullet size or speed. Most will agree that once you get above the 'mouse gun", .22, .25, or .32 (some will even even include .38 or .380 but I do not) any well placed shot(s) will git-r-done. It is also amazng that people include magazine capacity in the same discussion -.if one shot (or two max) does the trick then the rest are needed only if you face multiple bad guys or you did not place the shot(s) well.

Obviously, these two factors (having larger rounds and carrying more of them) work against each other in a CC gun. Assuming that you define a CC gun with smaller dimensions as better. IMHO, having 15 rounds of .380 is better than having 8 rounds of .45 since just making noise (not having made well placed shots) does not have much "stopping power".

The best gun is one that you, personally, can shoot well, with a comfortable grip, good grip angle (for pointing) and not so much recoil that it wears you out or is hard to get fast follow-up shots. That might vary between one with a big paw and one with a smaller hand - something else to keep in mind for planning that both you and your wife get matching CC pistols.

A "good" CC gun is one that is easy to carry and easy to shoot - falling short in either of those areas makes the "stopping power" unlikely to ever be an issue since it won't likley be carried often enough. I like this pistol (Taurus PT638) for its CC possibilities, small dimensions, 15+1 capacity, good safety features and its ease of shooting:

American Rifleman | The Taurus PT638 Pro SA .380 ACP

Taurus also makes other good CC pistols (of other calibres) in their Millenium Pro series.

Taurus Millennium Pro G2 9mm Semiautomatic Pistol | Academy
Click to expand...

yes I am leaning more toward the 9mm round. it seems to be the go to round at this point.
I read about those as well.

really I need to go to a range and try them out.
not sure if we will get matching pistols but I would like to.

or at least matching ammo.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...

the shield only comes in 40 and 9mm

the 9mm is by far the best choice

modern ammo has made the differences in "stopping power" negligible 9mm is much easier to shoot and since its cheaper and easier on your joints, you will practice more and that is what really counts. XDs are good guns but I don't like them. I don't like the grip angle etc. But they are reliable.

I carry a 938 SIG or a shield. In cold weather where I have more stuff on, I often carry a MP compact which can use the full size magazine of the MP if needed.

If you get a 40 try to find some of the DHS 135 grain Border Patrol load. lots easier on you than the 165 or 180 grain jobs. A 45 is easier on you IMHO than a 40
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...

I personally prefer .45, but 9mm is beyond sufficient, heck even .38 is highly effective despite a century of people claiming they lack killing power. Get what you re comfortable with, if you like the recoil and ammo cost of the 9mm go that way, it is effective enough that military and law enforcement worldwide use them, so stopping power clearly can not be an issue.

You can also go the route of a revolver over a pistol, where snub nosed can be very compact as well, in ranges from 22 to .357 in snub nosed.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...

A good CC gun is a SW model 642 J-Frame in .38 spl, there are also some good J-frame that come in .357 magnum.
 
cpgrad08 said:
A good CC gun is a SW model 642 J-Frame in .38 spl, there are also some good J-frame that come in .357 magnum.
Click to expand...

357 full tilt magnum out of such a gun is not conducive to someone learning the level of accuracy needed for self defense shooting given those little snubbies are not easy to shoot accurately. I suggest the Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain loads in standard-not +p loads. Placement is what is key and a brutally recoiling load is not going to help you achieve that.
 
TurtleDude said:
357 full tilt magnum out of such a gun is not conducive to someone learning the level of accuracy needed for self defense shooting given those little snubbies are not easy to shoot accurately. I suggest the Hornady Critical Defense 110 grain loads in standard-not +p loads. Placement is what is key and a brutally recoiling load is not going to help you achieve that.
Click to expand...

Put a good after market grip and get a low recoil like the hydrashock then it is easy. Also I don't see a recoil difference with non p and +p.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
I actually do not believe the shield comes in 45.

Regardless for a gun as small as the options you're looking at, you want to go with 9 mm simply because larger calibers reduce your ammunition capacity. All this BS about 9 mm not having adequate stopping power is just that. Modern self defense ammunition eliminates the need for a larger round.
Click to expand...

That's what I am told as well. For concealed, close up defensive applications, a .380/9m should do you fine. A lot of the input I got from the "more power" dudes I know and respect say go big or go home. But other people I also respect, and just as qualified, tell me a 9m or a .380 will do just fine for what you are wanting to do. Defend yourself.

Check out the Bersa .380 Thunder. For the price, I hear it's pretty good. The S&W M&P9 (or 40) Shield have GREAT reputations. If you have a few extra dollars, not a bad way to go. If you hit the lottery tonight, and money is no issue, go nuts. There are handguns designed for concealed that are the cats ass if you don't mind paying for them.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Put a good after market grip and get a low recoil like the hydrashock then it is easy. Also I don't see a recoil difference with non p and +p.
Click to expand...

normal 38 self defense loads are much easier to find, easier to find equivalent practice rounds and are cheaper.
 
thanks guys. I am going to talk with the wife when I get back. she needs a gun safety course which isn't hard to do.
I already have mine from my hunter safety course.

although I might take another one just to refresh anything that has changed.
I just need to see what she would be comfortable shooting and a .40 or.45 might be to much.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...

My wife has an XD .40 and loves it. I have heard real good stuff about the S&W but have never shot one.

The wife and I both have .40s but my carry weapon can be switched to 9mm. I load it with .40 in the winter and 9mm in the summer. It is a complicated explanation that involves a custom load and a bunch of other stuff. I ahve never shot the .45 in either one of the pistols you are talking about. I have a .45 but it is a Para-Ordnance and it is quite a bit larger and heavier than the XD or the M&P. The recoil is not bad at all on it.
 
ludin said:
Well with things getting like they are and the fact that I travel I tend to worry about my family while I am gone.
I am thinking about getting and my wife has mentioned this as well is conceal weapon permits.

I have been looking at some compact hand guns and I was looking for a bit more input.

1. is the smith and Wesson MP shield.
2. is the Springfield XDs

the only other question is the 9mm or the 45 both of these guns come in
those models.

I like the 45 for better stopping power, but 9mm might be better on the recoil,
and ammo is a bit cheaper for the 9mm.
Click to expand...
Find a range that rents guns. Try them all, and try things you think you won't like, too, so you get context.

Buy the gun you enjoy shooting. Don't worry about caliber or capacity or any of that. Buy the gun you enjoy, so that you will practice regularly and have confidence when you carry.
 
Jerry said:
Find a range that rents guns. Try them all, and try things you think you won't like, too, so you get context.

Buy the gun you enjoy shooting. Don't worry about caliber or capacity or any of that. Buy the gun you enjoy, so that you will practice regularly and have confidence when you carry.
Click to expand...

Ol I have confidence it is just finding one I like.
I use to hunt and everything when I was younger so aiming etc isn't an issue.
 
ludin said:
Ol I have confidence it is just finding one I like.
I use to hunt and everything when I was younger so aiming etc isn't an issue.
Click to expand...
My best advice there is to look for the gun to start your collection, not be your collection :)
 
Jerry said:
My best advice there is to look for the gun to start your collection, not be your collection :)
Click to expand...

This is kind of a find one that is it kind of thing.
it is really just for personal protection etc ...

when I am home I would like to get mine as well just in case.
this is mostly for her though.
 
ludin said:
This is kind of a find one that is it kind of thing.
it is really just for personal protection etc ...

when I am home I would like to get mine as well just in case.
this is mostly for her though.
Click to expand...
Small hands? Any upper torso joint problems, to include the back? Can she rack a slide?
 
Jerry said:
Small hands? Any upper torso joint problems, to include the back? Can she rack a slide?
Click to expand...

Excellent question, most of us men forget that women especially small ladies cannot rack the slide on some autos and that is a game killer for anyone that is serious about self defense. Handing someone an auto that has already been locked and loaded to try out is not performing a full test of you ability to use the firearm.
 
Jerry said:
My best advice there is to look for the gun to start your collection, not be your collection :)
Click to expand...

Shhhh, let them learn that expensive lesson on their own. Good grief it becomes habit forming, you find that perfect gun and get her home and absolutely love her, then someone comes out with something new and shinny or you buddy lets you shot one of his and Bang back to the gun store. You know when you are really serious when you need to have a gun safe and still have a gun or two or three in almost every room of the house. Oh well, what ya gonna do:gunsmilie
 
Jerry said:
Small hands? Any upper torso joint problems, to include the back? Can she rack a slide?
Click to expand...

that I what I will find out. I am sure she can which is why I am looking at 9mm
more to do with recoil.

she has shot guns before. I was just looking for a good option for a good concealed gun.
 
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