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Terrified woman shoots and kills daughter[W:387]

GhostlyJoe said:
Guns are dangerous. Gun ownership is codified in the constitution, and I support it. But there is a real cost in blood and tears. Some people legitimately don't want to pay that cost. I disagree with them, but I understand that position.
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If people in this country don't want to exercise their rights that's up to them. They MUST NOT, however, be allowed to dictate to other people what rights they are allowed to exercise.
 
Soho gator said:
True but (most) people need cars. No one needs a gun.
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We could go round and round with this. People don't NEED a car. Walking, biking and public transportation can get you where you need to go. True, people don't NEED a gun. But some people want one for safety or sport just like people want a car for convenience.
 
Soho gator said:
We require that of new citizens...
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Yes, we require a test and an oath from everyone from somewhere else who wishes to become a US citizen...with the exception of those who simply happen to be born on this soil of parents who are here illegally.
 
DaveFagan said:
Perfectly all right. She obviously feared for her life, the same as the untold number of Police Officers that kill unarmed citizens. Why can people only relate to this when there is no Police Officer in the equation. This is sarcasm. The lady is wrong and the Police often are. Both instances demonstrate excess turds in the gene pool, eh?
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Ironically her hubby is a cop.
 
reinoe said:
"within a well regulated militia..." means that there can be some restrictions placed on gun ownership.
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No question the government has viewed it that way. My belief is that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow the public to defend itself against a government gone wild. It is natural that the government wants to reduce gun ownership. Allowing it would be a mistake.
 
Groogrux said:
And I was pointing out the hole in Soho's argument. They are lots of things that we do that increase the risk of a loved one dying. Gun ownership is not unique in that way. Therefore, it's not a valid argument for NOT owning a gun.
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Reasonable people will note I did not say it was. I simply noted that if you introduce a non needed item like a gun in your home the odds of you killing a loved one go way up. Many are willing to take the chance though.
 
Casper said:
When the response time is anywhere between 20 and 30 minutes that is not always the best first option, at least not for many of us.
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To be fair the EMS was there well before that but they couldn't fix her perforated forehead.
 
fmw said:
No question the government has viewed it that way. My belief is that the purpose of the second amendment was to allow the public to defend itself against a government gone wild. It is natural that the government wants to reduce gun ownership. Allowing it would be a mistake.
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We already allow it. Felons are often prevented from buying guns. As are those who are deemed mentally unstable. We are prevented from purchasing tanks, bazookas, and other military grade armaments. Knives, brass knuckles, and swords also have restrictions along with other weapons. Lastly there are 50 states and all 50 states have different restrictions. Sometimes people miss the forest for the trees...you're so busy worrying about "guns" while ignoring that the 2nd amendment applies to a "well regulated militia". Please spare me your pseudo concern. You only care about what affects YOU personally. There are thousands of people who are having their rights suppressed and you have no concern for them.
 
Soho gator said:
Reasonable people will note I did not say it was. I simply noted that if you introduce a non needed item like a gun in your home the odds of you killing a loved one go way up. Many are willing to take the chance though.
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who are you to decide what others NEED

your odds don't go up if you are a responsible gun owner who legally owns the gun
 
I'd be in favor of mandatory IQ tests for both owning guns, and voting.
 
TurtleDude said:
who are you to decide what others NEED

your odds don't go up if you are a responsible gun owner who legally owns the gun
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Sure they do - this woman was the wife of a cop and apparently well trained. However like most gun owners she was terrified of things that go bumb in the night - in this case her daughter.

I am a great judge of what people need. If for example one weighs 700# they don't need a ham sandwich.

Edit in point of fact her daughters odds went way up.
 
This is sickening. Using a terrible tragedy to bash gun owners.
 
reinoe said:
Please spare me your pseudo concern. dy allow it. F You only care about what affects YOU personally. There are thousands of people who are having their rights suppressed and you have no concern for them.
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What would I know about my own concerns? I appreciate your filling me in.
 
Casper said:
One should always identify their target prior to pointing their weapon, putting their finger on the trigger, and firing the gun, she made some fundamental and tragic mistakes, she should have trained better.
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And families should have discussed this kind of thing, just like they prepare fire drills and teach kids about stranger danger.

When my parents come to stay, we go over this every time.

But yes, you should always identify your target. If your 'target' in a home where no one else should be does not identify itself, then they may be assumed to be a lethal threat.
 
GhostlyJoe said:
You must pass a test and be licensed by the state to drive a car. Would you support a similar system for gun ownership?
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No. Name a right where you must pass a test and be licensed to exercise it?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
That's a very hard lesson to learn, and one I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. IMO, the best defense is to have a phone to call 911...because if the mom had done so instead of shooting who she assumed was an intruder, her daughter would still be alive.
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Sad sad sad. But no different than a home where the parent accidentally backs over their kid in the driveway (scarily common), owns a pitbull, or a pool.

Exactly what would calling 911 prevent if that intruder had come to rape or kill her? The cops dont instantaneously appear by transporter.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Problem is, the gun-rights crowd refuse to accept that that particular phrase has any meaning whatsoever.
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In the usage of the times, 'well-regulated' meant 'trained.'
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Guns are dangerous. Gun ownership is codified in the constitution, and I support it. But there is a real cost in blood and tears. Some people legitimately don't want to pay that cost. I disagree with them, but I understand that position.
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Interesting way to put it. And it's easy to see that anti-gun people are very very biased because they dont recognize that cars cost much more in blood and tears.

But we all love our cars and people rationalize that we cant get along without them (yet in many cities and many countries, people do so just fine...they make the decision to do so).
 
GhostlyJoe said:
Well, you have to register to vote. But, in practice, I see much more real-world utility for firearm training then tests for voting. Untrained people with guns are dangerous -- the OP is a case in point. That said, I support our right to bear arms.
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Who said the woman in the OP was untrained? Most of the people who do commit crimes with guns, even the nutters that become active shooters, have training. The difference is intent.

But accidents happen, period. With anything.

But just to say it's about training? Here: couple yrs ago a cop had a loaded gun in his glove compartment and left his 7 yr old son and 3 yr old daughter in the van to go in and shop. Son accidentally shot and killed sister.

Was the cop untrained? No. It wasnt even an 'accident' on his part. It was IMO criminal irresponsibility. And that's a tough one to 'legislate.'
 
Soho gator said:
True but (most) people need cars. No one needs a gun.
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Not true....most people can get along just fine without cars. People in other developed countries do it all the time. And people here in cities and suburbs.

It's just another choice you make...where to live, how to get around.

We just have a 'car culture.' We are very very attached to our cars....we 'love' our cars. And we place our kids in them and just go. We let mere acquaintances drive our kids around for convenience. And we risk their lives every single time.

It's all about perspective.
 
Lursa said:
And families should have discussed this kind of thing, just like they prepare fire drills and teach kids about stranger danger.

When my parents come to stay, we go over this every time.

But yes, you should always identify your target. If your 'target' in a home where no one else should be does not identify itself, then they may be assumed to be a lethal threat.
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Good God this is something you discuss and plan whenever your parents come over? SMH....

There no helping America from gun nutters.
 
Soho gator said:
Good God this is something you discuss and plan whenever your parents come over? SMH....

There no helping America from gun nutters.
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My parents only visit like once a yr and they stay at my house.

They are reminded that if there is any kind of incident at night, that they are to remain exactly where they are and respond if I ask them to identify themselves.

My father was a volunteer fireman...we practiced firedrills growing up...was that stupid? We never had a fire, so...just dumb, right?
 
Lursa said:
My parents only visit like once a yr and they stay at my house.

They are reminded that if there is any kind of incident at night, that they are to remain exactly where they are and respond if I ask them to identify themselves.

My father was a volunteer fireman...we practiced firedrills growing up...was that stupid? We never had a fire, so...just dumb, right?
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Yup dumb on so many different levels especially with adult parents. if you don't mind my inquiry are you a"prepper"
 
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