What's the core purpose of gun control?[W:196]

_Sal said:

well I knew I would get a reaction and to me, other than you, I wouldn't trust the others that responded to our conversation with a water gun let alone a gun with bullets

anyone who starts to get accusatory, personal, and needs to attack shouldn't own a gun, they are far too emotional and prone to reactionary responses...not even something I would bother to respond to...totally irrational and they likely own an arsenal...likely would shoot their own foot...

now having said that, there was a guy in another forum who taught people correct response, self defense and correct use of a gun...he never lost his cool, totally a rational guy, he could stay chilly regardless of what I threw at him, I learned to respect him and take him seriously, him I would trust...the rest of the yahoos...nope...no vote for them

it doesn't matter much to me but the average individual...not capable of owning a gun, too prone to attack and too irrational

Click to expand...

Exactly WTF do you think you are doing here?

Irrational is being afraid of guns in particular other peoples guns.

Irrational is thinking that taking victims of crimes guns from them will make you safer

Irrational is thinking guns cause crime

Irrational is claiming the reaction of every animal on earth when threatened is to defend itself does not apply to man.

Irrational is slagging off others because you cannot counter their arguments and valid points made.

Rational debate is to prove somebody wrong and you have been proven wrong on every count so far. You are not doing so well so I would not be pointing fingers at others.

You want respect earn it like the rest of us. The only yahoo here is you and with your wobbly gun control instilled responses, exhibited fears and paranoia I would suggest a real danger to society.

If you can counter any argument put to you do it or say thanks I'll think about that. Zealots and the indoctrinated dismiss out of hand and rationalise the truth away.

Which are you going to do?

_Sal said:

well I knew I would get a reaction and to me, other than you, I wouldn't trust the others that responded to our conversation with a water gun let alone a gun with bullets

anyone who starts to get accusatory, personal, and needs to attack shouldn't own a gun, they are far too emotional and prone to reactionary responses...not even something I would bother to respond to...totally irrational and they likely own an arsenal...likely would shoot their own foot...

now having said that, there was a guy in another forum who taught people correct response, self defense and correct use of a gun...he never lost his cool, totally a rational guy, he could stay chilly regardless of what I threw at him, I learned to respect him and take him seriously, him I would trust...the rest of the yahoos...nope...no vote for them

it doesn't matter much to me but the average individual...not capable of owning a gun, too prone to attack and too irrational

Click to expand...

This is plain and simple:
Suicides account for most gun deaths | Pew Research Center

Suicides by gun accounted for about six of every 10 firearm deaths

Click to expand...

U.S. Gun Deaths: Suicides Outnumber Homicides 2-to-1

“Suicide by firearm is far more common than homicide,”

Click to expand...

Roughly 1/3 of Americans own guns. Those 2/3's who don't are not daily victims of violence.

I've lived in Wilmington, Delaware my whole life (52 years). Wilmington is currently a "murder capital" of America. I've never carried a gun. None of my family and friends carry.
None of us feel "un-safe" or like we're gonna be a victim if we don't carry a gun 24/7/365.

I live 30 miles south of Philadelphia, Pa. Been there hundreds of times. Never been shot. Never carry a gun when I go there.

The majority of gun violence in this area is drug related. That kind of makes avoiding gun battles easy.

You can, and most do, live long and non-violent lives in the USofA without ever owning, or needing to own a gun.

Regardless of what the scaremongers scream and shout to the contrary.

Dragonfly said:

This is plain and simple:
Suicides account for most gun deaths | Pew Research Center



U.S. Gun Deaths: Suicides Outnumber Homicides 2-to-1



Roughly 1/3 of Americans own guns. Those 2/3's who don't are not daily victims of violence.

I've lived in Wilmington, Delaware my whole life (52 years). Wilmington is currently a "murder capital" of America. I've never carried a gun. None of my family and friends carry.
None of us feel "un-safe" or like we're gonna be a victim if we don't carry a gun 24/7/365.

I live 30 miles south of Philadelphia, Pa. Been there hundreds of times. Never been shot. Never carry a gun when I go there.

The majority of gun violence in this area is drug related. That kind of makes avoiding gun battles easy.

You can, and most do, live long and non-violent lives in the USofA without ever owning, or needing to own a gun.

Regardless of what the scaremongers scream and shout to the contrary.

Click to expand...

and the vast majority of lawful gun owners are never going to be harmed by their own guns either

regardless of what the gun hating fear purveyors scream and shout to the contrary

VanceMack said:

The fact some 120 million Americans own 300 million plus firearms pretty clearly indicates your fears are irrational and probably sourced more from within than without.

Click to expand...

seriously get rational...I couldn't care less if you are armed to the teeth...this is exactly the irrational kind of comments I am speaking about...

Dragonfly said:

This is plain and simple:


Regardless of what the scaremongers scream and shout to the contrary.

Click to expand...

You ever heard of anecdotal evidence? Know what it means? So what exactly has your experience got to do with those who did get raped, robbed, mugged, burgled, hijacked, kid napped and , assaulted? Do tell some of us are interested what we should tell those victims who survived to do. What would you suggest?

Dragonfly said:

This is plain and simple:
Suicides account for most gun deaths | Pew Research Center



U.S. Gun Deaths: Suicides Outnumber Homicides 2-to-1



Roughly 1/3 of Americans own guns. Those 2/3's who don't are not daily victims of violence.

I've lived in Wilmington, Delaware my whole life (52 years). Wilmington is currently a "murder capital" of America. I've never carried a gun. None of my family and friends carry.
None of us feel "un-safe" or like we're gonna be a victim if we don't carry a gun 24/7/365.

I live 30 miles south of Philadelphia, Pa. Been there hundreds of times. Never been shot. Never carry a gun when I go there.

The majority of gun violence in this area is drug related. That kind of makes avoiding gun battles easy.

You can, and most do, live long and non-violent lives in the USofA without ever owning, or needing to own a gun.

Regardless of what the scaremongers scream and shout to the contrary.

Click to expand...

well there you go...thanks

_Sal said:

seriously get rational...I couldn't care less if you are armed to the teeth...this is exactly the irrational kind of comments I am speaking about...

Click to expand...

Irrationality not demonstrated where is it?

Crimefree said:

Irrationality not demonstrated where is it?

Click to expand...

you don't get it...you need to project fear onto me to make your point and just read the other crap posted on here, not even worth responding to...if you guys think that sways anyone toward your side then you need to rethink your stance...it's pure emotional crap...it's not even a discussion you just attack...wtf is that about...hostile, hostile, hostile, no cool thought at ALL...you don't care about my questions only about one upmanship...that is not cool thought, it's emotional response...why would I think you could handle a gun?

why would I be scared I don't even live in your country...you think by attacking me I will support you...no...it makes me feel justified in my questioning and my conclusion that the average individual is not equipped mentally or emotionally to own a gun

_Sal said:

seriously get rational...I couldn't care less if you are armed to the teeth...this is exactly the irrational kind of comments I am speaking about...

Click to expand...

Which is exactly my point and why you have zero credibility. Your emotion driven rant about gun owners is silly. Its rather comical you are up in arms over us. And yet...I can say that I have never once seen you start a thread or address in any way the people actually committing violent acts in this country. There are 1.2 million violent crimes committed every year. And yet...you spend your time worrying about me.

Yeah...that makes as much sense as anything I reckon.

One primary purpose of gun control is to rationalize not confining violent criminals and the criminally insane and to pretend that it is (or could be if only made intrusive enough) an effective alternative. Gun violence is simply crime committed with guns, often by known "career" violent criminals. Instead of placing known (as in convicted by due process or adjudged to be insane and dangerous) violent folks on no gun lists and then trying to prevent (only?) them from buying, stealing or otherwise gaining access to guns why not simply institutionalize (only) them?

Tool control is never going to end tool abuse so long as known violent and dangerous tool abusers are left to roam freely among us. Taking classes, passing tests and paying fees is never going to stop criminals or those intent upon making a quick buck by selling them guns.

We now have a nationwide ban on many recreational drugs yet they are readily available 24/7/365 and support a multi-billion dollar per year industry completely run by criminals. If we stopped that "war on drugs" nonsense and instead used those "resources" to control violent thugs (LWOP or DP for serious or multiple violent offense convictions) it just may reduce the demand for so many to feel the need to arm themselves.

Obviously, the more folks that own guns (which they cannot carry or properly secure) then the easier it is for a criminal to steal them. Not many will make the investment in a gun safe as it is, even fewer if they must waist money on classes, tests and fees. Why not let the receipt for a gun safe serve as a CHL/CCW permit "qulaifying" alternative to paying a fee?

Fear is a highly valuable tool.

There are some who suggest that the ONLY way to defend their family and them self is to be armed with the latest and greatest weapons available. Lots of them. In every variety, color, and caliber.
That if you have no firearm at all, you're just a sitting duck waiting to be slaughtered, and even more importantly, you WILL be slaughtered if you're unarmed.

Some will say they don't feel safe leaving the house without a concealed weapon.
Some will say you're a negligent provider/parent if you don't have some deadly method of protecting your family at your fingertips 24/7/365.

Are some people living in dangerous areas? Yes.
Do some people have irrational fear? Yes.
Are they one and the same? Not always.

Fear.

It's a tool far more often than a reality.

Dragonfly said:

Fear is a highly valuable tool.

There are some who suggest that the ONLY way to defend their family and them self is to be armed with the latest and greatest weapons available. Lots of them. In every variety, color, and caliber.
That if you have no firearm at all, you're just a sitting duck waiting to be slaughtered, and even more importantly, you WILL be slaughtered if you're unarmed.

Some will say they don't feel safe leaving the house without a concealed weapon.
Some will say you're a negligent provider/parent if you don't have some deadly method of protecting your family at your fingertips 24/7/365.

Are some people living in dangerous areas? Yes.
Do some people have irrational fear? Yes.
Are they one and the same? Not always.

Fear.

It's a tool far more often than a reality.

Click to expand...

Do you have a fire extinguisher in your home?

Dragonfly said:

Poll questions:
What's the core purpose of gun control?

1) To undermine the Constitution as a whole. To debase and destabilize the United States.

2) To attempt to reduce gun violence - but NOT through concepts/actions that resemble choice #1 or #3

3) To completely ban ALL guns from all people in all of USofA

4) other - please explain

Click to expand...

Different people have different goals/agendas, so all and none apply it simply depends on the person.

_Sal said:

you don't get it...you need to project fear onto me to make your point and just read the other crap posted on here, not even worth responding to...if you guys think that sways anyone toward your side then you need to rethink your stance...it's pure emotional crap...it's not even a discussion you just attack...wtf is that about...hostile, hostile, hostile, no cool thought at ALL...you don't care about my questions only about one upmanship...that is not cool thought, it's emotional response...why would I think you could handle a gun?

Click to expand...

YOU MADE A CLAIM that was without evidence. YOU DO NOT GET IT. I specifically asked for what you did not provide, proof or evidence of your claim. You cannot just come here run your mouth off making accusations WITHOUT justifying your claims.

I don't think some people are cowards I gave my reasoning why they are most certainly cowards like it or not. I will say it again those who are prepared to defend themselves and fight back are most certainly not coward because they choose the best means possible. All that BS claim from gun control advocates is is PROJECTION. Cowards don't fight back, they expect somebody else to do it for them.

why would I be scared I don't even live in your country...you think by attacking me I will support you...no...it makes me feel justified in my questioning and my conclusion that the average individual is not equipped mentally or emotionally to own a gun

Click to expand...

There you go proving my point thank you. How would I know why you are afraid? I know you are that is all from your language I pointed out. My evidence of claim.

Now you made a claim I attacked you. Quote it to back up your claim.

I do not give a rats rear end about you emotional ranting but you will prove your point or be labelled a liar.

Are you blind each one of your points has been addressed and shown to be wrong. Only an idiot would want to discuss what is incorrect. Your problem is you do not see your point as having been refuted. Your mind will not accept that. That is what indoctrination does. It is exhibited here all the time by gun control advocates. They think they are the worlds best debaters and none of their claims have been shown to be wrong. The truth is nothing they have ever claimed stands unrefuted. NOTHING. Gun control is a complete LIE from beginning to end. What else do you want to know?

There is no evidence to support your claim for the average individual and it is factually crap easily disproven, by looking at the accident statistics of about 500 per year.

Now try and claim your points have not been addressed and shown to be false which they are for the second time now. Repeating them will not bring them back to life here. Try to remember that.

Casper said:

Different people have different goals/agendas, so all and none apply it simply depends on the person.

Click to expand...

Fair enough, although I'd say the VAST majority of people do not favor a complete ban on all guns.
Nor do the VAST majority want to "undermine the Constitution as a whole. To debase and destabilize the United States".

VanceMack said:

Do you have a fire extinguisher in your home?

Click to expand...

Do you wear a full face helmet when you drive in a car, and require all those who ride with you to wear one as well?

Dragonfly said:

Do you wear a full face helmet when you drive in a car, and require all those who ride with you to wear one as well?

Click to expand...

that's a silly attempt to divert from his point

there is no disadvantage or hassle carrying a gun for most of us who aren't afraid of weapons

Dragonfly said:

Do you wear a full face helmet when you drive in a car, and require all those who ride with you to wear one as well?

Click to expand...

That's not an answer to the very honest, straightforward, and direct question that I asked. In fact I'd say it was clearly a desperate attempt to avoid the answer. You recently said something about having 'reasonable' discussions on this subject. Have you abandoned that position?

Dragonfly said:

Fair enough, although I'd say the VAST majority of people do not favor a complete ban on all guns.
Nor do the VAST majority want to "undermine the Constitution as a whole. To debase and destabilize the United States".

Click to expand...

The current laws are good enough, we simply need to enforce them. Then go after those that use them in crimes and address the mental health issue this Nation Ignores. As for myself it will not matter what anyone bans, I have more than my fair share of them and many are exactly those some want to ban, along with a lifetimes worth of ammo for all of them, meaning that closing the door after the horses already left is completely pointless. Easy to pass knee jerk laws but if they have zero common sense behind them then the point of passing them is often never accomplished and changes nothing.

Bob N said:

I don't even believe in calling it gun control. That's almost like saying that one is controlling marijuana; that's not totally controlled either.

No.

This is would be more like regulating. Basically like the way it is stated in the Second Amendment. :twocents:

Click to expand...

The second amendment doesnt say the right can be regulated; it says it cannot be infringed upon.

:doh

Crimefree said:

Why are you frightened of guns? Do you limit the number of knives you own of have you allowed gun control to fill your head with rubbish?

Don't worry I do know it is like asking an insane person if they are insane.

Ask yourself this - what thought processes and research did you do to come to your conclusions? How do you know what guns are? You just know, de-programme yourself you are indoctrinated with gun controls dogma and lies. You fear guns, de-0programme yourself. You think guns cause crime but rocks don't, de-programme yourself.

For once in their lives Canadians did something useful, they tossed out that useless long gun registry but were not brave or astute enough to throw the handgun registry after it. For a brief moment there was hope for them.

Click to expand...

Back off. Other countries and their respective people may govern themselves however they wish.

_Sal said:

:shock: actually, I am shocked that I agree with you! I live in Ontario Canada. Our need for a gun is zero. I could never understand why Americans were so pro gun. After reading posts here and in another US forum I think the need for a gun in your country is justified.

I won't be moving to your country any time soon even though I have friends across the boarder.

Many western Canadians share the need for a gun/guns but for different reasons.

Americans do not understand Canadians and vice versa.

I am now okay with that. eace

And with your need to own 50 guns each and possess semi-automatics.

Just don't bring them here... :lol:

Click to expand...

I can dig that, our country is ours and yours is yours.

Blah...blah

We have a Constitution. We have a means of amending the Constitution.

The zillions of hours of debate is nice but at the end of the day we are a democracy. Don't agree with a provision in the Constitution?...then lobby to have it changed.

We don't sidestep the Constitution because 'I think this...' Or 'stats show that...'. There is a legitimate means of expression in a democracy. Freedom of expression, association, petitioning for change.

If we don't achieve change because of some opposition from the othr side...then what? That side shouldn't be allowed to express itself? Associate? Not democratically elect senators, etc. that represent its view?

Iamjesus said:

Blah...blah

We have a Constitution. We have a means of amending the Constitution.

The zillions of hours of debate is nice but at the end of the day we are a democracy. Don't agree with a provision in the Constitution?...then lobby to have it changed.

We don't sidestep the Constitution because 'I think this...' Or 'stats show that...'. There is a legitimate means of expression in a democracy. Freedom of expression, association, petitioning for change.

If we don't achieve change because of some opposition from the othr side...then what? That side shouldn't be allowed to express itself? Associate? Not democratically elect senators, etc. that represent its view?

Click to expand...

What's this drivel all about?

Luftwaffe said:

The second amendment doesnt say the right can be regulated; it says it cannot be infringed upon.

:doh

Click to expand...

I disagree. It's written down as both a "regulated militia" and that it "can't be infringed upon."

Bob N said:

I disagree. It's written down as both a "regulated militia" and that it "can't be infringed upon."

Click to expand...

You mean like keeping it regular, common, in good working order and armed with what is in use?