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The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block W:230]

Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

So you cannot prove that I am not pro second amendment. Therefore you made a false assertion about me.

End of discussion.
Your choice of thread title is all the proof anyone needs.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

A gun free zone tells the suicidal nut job who wants his 15 minutes of fame that the place is disarmed and therefore easy targets.Its why the Fort Hood shooting, the navy yard shooting, mass shootings at schools happen and other places were the intended victims are disarmed. GUn free zones don't apply to just the kids. They also apply to the school staff as well.If it didn't apply to the school staff then you could make that argument that they do not want a stressed out kid shooting up a school.Gun free zones are about making sure that no one is armed. There is a reason most high profile mass shootings happen in gun free zones.Un-armed targets make easy prey,possibly a higher body count and therefor their 15 minutes of fame guaranteed. Its also why some news agencies with some decency refuse to show the mass murder's name and photo.

The problem with this reasoning is that we have a lot of data on the mass shootings. In nearly every single mass shooting (62 in 30 years), there has been zero evidence to support the notion that the killer chose the spot because it was a gun free zone. Instead, we have plenty of evidence to support the claim that the killers chose the spot because of previous connections (they attended the school or worked at that building or wanted to harm the types of individuals found there [minorities or abortion providers]).

Next, consider the fact that nearly every one of the mass shootings was perpetrated by someone who intended to commit suicide at the end. Safety is not a primary concern and I know, you can imagine the thought process wherein someone seeking their claim to fame will want to shoot up as many as possible before dying, but do you really believe that such a person - someone who wants to die after killing as many people as possible - will allow themselves to choose a new target because they are likely to kill 5 people before being confronted or killing 10-15 people before being confronted? Do we have any evidence of a single mass shooter deciding to switch targets because of that reasoning?

Finally, consider the fact that zero of the mass shootings were stopped by individual armed civilians. And consider the problems posed by allowing someone who is not subjected to the rigorous training that police officers, swat, etc. are subjected to in order to know how to deal with a mass shooting situation. And whereas we have zero evidence of a mass shooting being stopped by an armed civilian, we do have direct evidence of an armed civilian confronting the assailant and that confrontation resulted in severe injuries to the civilian in Tacoma, Washington (2005) and Tyler, Texas (2005). Are they commendable for trying? Sure. Did it work? No.
 
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Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

You do not support citizens rights to self defence and seek to hamper and remove citizens choices for no logical or proven factual reason.

You have never spoken out and will not advocate the removal of gun controls created killing zones of choice, gun free zones. Such a person is willing to see innocent children and citizens killed to obtain their agenda.

My statement is factual and true. Nothing you wrote changes that. A denial is expected from the guilty. Only evidence of innocence now will change the charge.

I'd rather see you try and prove you support citizens rights and are not the enemy of our rights.

As such an enemy of rights would attempt to alter, weaken or change our rights. You are on record as desiring to do that by offering the strawman argument we (citizens) would be safer. The reality is that only criminals and government would be safer.

You have offered no evidence to substantiate your claimed support of the 2nd amendment as it stands. Infringements are prohibited for this very reason that those who seek the destruction of society would choose to remove the second.

Case closed you lose.

It is idiotic at ask that a negative be proved.

Beyond doubt you have exhibited no support for the 2A.

Your false claim of and use of a personal attack in order to avoid a response is typical of the believer and indoctrinated. A good psychological reference will tell you why.

Once again, nothing you're saying is true and I defy you to try and prove that it is.

You guys in this thread have once again managed to turn the subject into me rather than on anything remotely related to the topic.

This happens because you cannot successfully and substantively argue a cogent point, so you resort to attacking the poster.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

Your choice of thread title is all the proof anyone needs.

Obviously you haven't rad the OP. I'll respond when I can see that you have.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

Moderator's Warning:
How about this, everyone needs to discussing the topic not each other. That also means attempting to bait people into discussing yourself. Stick to discussing the topic
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

Yes, selling a handgun to a resident of another state is illegal unles you do it through an FFL. The Handgun Transfer Ban is being challenged in federal court.

that ban though actually undermines the attempt of the Obama administration to force universal background checks upon private sellers though
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

The problem with this reasoning is that we have a lot of data on the mass shootings. In nearly every single mass shooting (62 in 30 years), there has been zero evidence to support the notion that the killer chose the spot because it was a gun free zone. Instead, we have plenty of evidence to support the claim that the killers chose the spot because of previous connections (they attended the school or worked at that building or wanted to harm the types of individuals found there [minorities or abortion providers]).

Next, consider the fact that nearly every one of the mass shootings was perpetrated by someone who intended to commit suicide at the end. Safety is not a primary concern and I know, you can imagine the thought process wherein someone seeking their claim to fame will want to shoot up as many as possible before dying, but do you really believe that such a person - someone who wants to die after killing as many people as possible - will allow themselves to choose a new target because they are likely to kill 5 people before being confronted or killing 10-15 people before being confronted? Do we have any evidence of a single mass shooter deciding to switch targets because of that reasoning?

Finally, consider the fact that zero of the mass shootings were stopped by individual armed civilians. And consider the problems posed by allowing someone who is not subjected to the rigorous training that police officers, swat, etc. are subjected to in order to know how to deal with a mass shooting situation. And whereas we have zero evidence of a mass shooting being stopped by an armed civilian, we do have direct evidence of an armed civilian confronting the assailant and that confrontation resulted in severe injuries to the civilian in Tacoma, Washington (2005) and Tyler, Texas (2005). Are they commendable for trying? Sure. Did it work? No.

the Aurora Colorado shooter picked a theater that was neither the closest or the most populated but was a gun free zone.

police officers really don't get rigorous firearms training in many departments.

and the evidence is clear-armed private citizens who shoot are less likely to miss the mope and less likely to hit an innocent than cops.

your argument is sort of a self fulfilling tautology because when an armed citizen stops an active shooter it usually results in the crime not rising to a mass shooting
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

Once again, nothing you're saying is true and I defy you to try and prove that it is.

You have claimed that the second will be over turned by the tide of gun control and offers nothing but accolade to gun control.

You are on record in these pages of supporting registration and limitations do you deny this?

You guys in this thread have once again managed to turn the subject into me rather than on anything remotely related to the topic.

You seem to have an obsession about yourself. YOU made this claim. Live with it.

This happens because you cannot successfully and substantively argue a cogent point, so you resort to attacking the poster

The only person who has not once offered a viable defence when his foolish and patently false claim has been shredded is you. Nobody has attacked you. I told you to consult a book on psychology and find out why you think so.

Take my post and show one logical response to any one of the claims. Do it claim by claim showing your defence WITH EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT YOU DEFENCE..

You come here and make unevidenced claims for which you cannot justify or prove and expect to be taken seriously. You have to be joking.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

the Aurora Colorado shooter picked a theater that was neither the closest or the most populated but was a gun free zone.

What is your source?

and the evidence is clear-armed private citizens who shoot are less likely to miss the mope and less likely to hit an innocent than cops.

your argument is sort of a self fulfilling tautology because when an armed citizen stops an active shooter it usually results in the crime not rising to a mass shooting

Setting aside the fact that these two statements appear somewhat conflicting at first blush, I would just like to know the source for the first claim.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

What is your source?



Setting aside the fact that these two statements appear somewhat conflicting at first blush, I would just like to know the source for the first claim.

both assertions have been posted at least a dozen times on this board and backed up with facts

Here is the one that has less evidentiary support

the accuracy of non LEO vs Cops has been documented constantly

Did Colorado shooter single out Cinemark theater because it banned guns? | Fox News
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

both assertions have been posted at least a dozen times on this board and backed up with facts

I haven't seen the source and I am just not going to do a blind search of every post on this board in order to find them.
 
Re: The Second Amendment Goes to the Chopping Block

I haven't seen the source and I am just not going to do a blind search of every post on this board in order to find them.

fair enough

here you go

GUNS - The Untold Truth


Don't think that just because the police are trained in the use of firearms that they are less likely to kill an innocent person. A University of Chicago Study revealed that in 1993 approximately 700,000 police killed 330 innocent individuals, while approximately 250,000,000 private citizens only killed 30 innocent people. Do the math. That's a per capita rate for the police, of almost 4000 times higher than the population in general. OK, that is a little misleading. Let's just include the 80,000,000 gun owning citizens. Now the police are down to only a 1200 times higher accidental shooting rate than the gun-owning population in general.

That still sounds high. So let's look at it in a different light. According to a study by Newsweek magazine, only 2% of civilian shootings involve an innocent person being shot (not killed). The error rate for police is 11%. What this means is that you are more than 5 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. But, when you consider that citizens shoot and kill at least twice as many criminals as do police every year, it means that, per capita, you are more than 11 times more likely to be accidentally shot by a policeman than by an armed citizen. That is as low as I can get that number.
 
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