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If guns were banned....[W:145]
- Thread starter Kal'Stang
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Re: If guns were banned....
Myself, my son, and grandson can easily burn through a thousand rounds in an afternoon of plinking. In order to reduce costs, we buy ammunition in bulk lots and/or when on sale.
I guess that makes us three terrorists.
Myself, my son, and grandson can easily burn through a thousand rounds in an afternoon of plinking. In order to reduce costs, we buy ammunition in bulk lots and/or when on sale.
I guess that makes us three terrorists.
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Re: If guns were banned....
"... UK — Homicides in England and Wales are not counted the same as in other countries. Their homicide numbers “exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defense or otherwise” (Report to Parliament). The problem isn’t just that it reduces the recorded homicide rate in England and Wales, but what would a similar reduction mean for the US.
If taken literally, and there is significant evidence that in practice the actual adjustment is no where near this large, a simple comparison can be made. In 2012, the US murder rate was 4.7 per 100,000, a total of 14,827. Arrests amounted to only 7,133. Using only people who were arrested (not just convicted) would lower the US murder rate to 2.26 per 100,000. More information on the adjustment for England and Wales is available here and it suggests that while many homicides are excluded it isn’t as large as it would appear (in 1997, the downward adjustment would be about 12 percent). ..."
Comparing murder rates and gun ownership across countries - Crime Prevention Research Center
"... UK — Homicides in England and Wales are not counted the same as in other countries. Their homicide numbers “exclude any cases which do not result in conviction, or where the person is not prosecuted on grounds of self defense or otherwise” (Report to Parliament). The problem isn’t just that it reduces the recorded homicide rate in England and Wales, but what would a similar reduction mean for the US.
If taken literally, and there is significant evidence that in practice the actual adjustment is no where near this large, a simple comparison can be made. In 2012, the US murder rate was 4.7 per 100,000, a total of 14,827. Arrests amounted to only 7,133. Using only people who were arrested (not just convicted) would lower the US murder rate to 2.26 per 100,000. More information on the adjustment for England and Wales is available here and it suggests that while many homicides are excluded it isn’t as large as it would appear (in 1997, the downward adjustment would be about 12 percent). ..."
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Re: If guns were banned....
How is crime stopped now"?
How are drugs seized?
How is bomb making dealt with?
How would ammunition make it into the country?
How peaceful would the country be without gun radicals?
Where would gun radicals congregate then?
What would gun radicals do to satisfy that need to shoot something?
Rounding up guns couldn't happen. Long prison terms for having one that is found in a search warrant connected to a crime would be one way of thinning the population.
No more shooting ranges is one way of making what guns remain in people's home useless dust collectors. A report tip from a concerned citizen that there were illegal guns in a home would generate an investigation and warrant leading to confiscation of contraband and a long prison sentence would be forth coming.
The NRA would shut their doors.
Black powder can't work with "barrel projectile" if there are not guns: Happy 4th of July.
Etc etc etc.
How is crime stopped now"?
How are drugs seized?
How is bomb making dealt with?
How would ammunition make it into the country?
How peaceful would the country be without gun radicals?
Where would gun radicals congregate then?
What would gun radicals do to satisfy that need to shoot something?
Rounding up guns couldn't happen. Long prison terms for having one that is found in a search warrant connected to a crime would be one way of thinning the population.
No more shooting ranges is one way of making what guns remain in people's home useless dust collectors. A report tip from a concerned citizen that there were illegal guns in a home would generate an investigation and warrant leading to confiscation of contraband and a long prison sentence would be forth coming.
The NRA would shut their doors.
Black powder can't work with "barrel projectile" if there are not guns: Happy 4th of July.
Etc etc etc.
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Re: If guns were banned....
You realize that only applies to ammunition for your personally owned sidearm, yes? Many soldiers take their service weapon home every day and there is no round limit for those.
There's a push by the public to loosen up all these laws you love. The population of Israel doesn't care for these restrictions as much as the government of Israel does.
You realize that's just what you're allowed to buy for taking home, yes? You can buy more at any range. No one checks to see if you fired all 50 before you leave.
You realize that only applies to ammunition for your personally owned sidearm, yes? Many soldiers take their service weapon home every day and there is no round limit for those.
There's a push by the public to loosen up all these laws you love. The population of Israel doesn't care for these restrictions as much as the government of Israel does.
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Re: If guns were banned....
I live in a society where I don't fear my neighbors and therefore don;t seek to disarm them.
I live in a society where I don't fear my neighbors and therefore don;t seek to disarm them.
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Re: If guns were banned....
Well if you look at homicide rates. of all the other countries you will they see that they vary.. but that variation does not correlate with gun ownership. for example Germany.. has something like 3 times the guns per indivudal than the UK yet has the a LOWER murder rate than the UK. that's one example but if you were to look at many other countries you would see that it doesn't correlate well.
If access to firearms were the key.. then it should be a straightforward correlation.. AND it should be a strong one.. which would mean that America.. with the highest gun ownership in the world.. should be.. (if firearms are the issue) the most violent and dangerous country in the word. But we are not.
So what are variables that influence murder rates?
Well poverty is one.. poverty and crime do tend to have a relationship. Now.. America is not a poor country.. like mexico.. however, America does not have the amount of safety nets that other countries like the UK etc have. So that is likely a factor.
Secondly is mental health. We definitely don;t have the access to mental health that other countries that have socialized government medicine have.. and we have a culture that looks down on getting mental health even if you can access it.
Third is a heterogeneous population. We have a population that has many cultures and histories and this does cause conflict. Other countries have more homogenous cultures though.. this is changing in Europe with immigration from the middle east.
Lastly is our draconian drug laws.. that have arguably created a large amount of organized crime and fighting between various criminal gangs/organizations for control of the illegal drug trade.. and its this that's created a higher murder rate than in other countries.
Well if you look at homicide rates. of all the other countries you will they see that they vary.. but that variation does not correlate with gun ownership. for example Germany.. has something like 3 times the guns per indivudal than the UK yet has the a LOWER murder rate than the UK. that's one example but if you were to look at many other countries you would see that it doesn't correlate well.
If access to firearms were the key.. then it should be a straightforward correlation.. AND it should be a strong one.. which would mean that America.. with the highest gun ownership in the world.. should be.. (if firearms are the issue) the most violent and dangerous country in the word. But we are not.
So what are variables that influence murder rates?
Well poverty is one.. poverty and crime do tend to have a relationship. Now.. America is not a poor country.. like mexico.. however, America does not have the amount of safety nets that other countries like the UK etc have. So that is likely a factor.
Secondly is mental health. We definitely don;t have the access to mental health that other countries that have socialized government medicine have.. and we have a culture that looks down on getting mental health even if you can access it.
Third is a heterogeneous population. We have a population that has many cultures and histories and this does cause conflict. Other countries have more homogenous cultures though.. this is changing in Europe with immigration from the middle east.
Lastly is our draconian drug laws.. that have arguably created a large amount of organized crime and fighting between various criminal gangs/organizations for control of the illegal drug trade.. and its this that's created a higher murder rate than in other countries.
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Re: If guns were banned....
Why do you all need arms? Who are you so afraid of you would take life?
Why do you all need arms? Who are you so afraid of you would take life?
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Re: If guns were banned....
Incident 2: on or about 2005-6. I was doing household chores during one evening while the wife was at her job. My 4 y/o son was asleep in his bed in his upstairs bedroom. While putting my son’s laundry away, a teen appeared at my son’s bedroom window (remember, second story), and began frantically trying to open it. My son was asleep directly under the window. I stepped over to the window, pulled out my revolver, pointed it at the teen and said “wrong house”. The look on his face was priceless. The teen scrambled down and ran across the yard only to be tackled by police seconds later. Since I had not called the police I was curious as to what was going on. Apparently this teen was just involved in a gang beating-death just a few houses away and was running from the police when he tried to brake into my son’s window.
Incident 3: late 2012. I pulled out of a car wash onto a somewhat busy main road. A white car behind me immediately honked. I guess they thought I had just cut them off. If I did it wasn't intentional. Anyway as I drive down the road they begin tailgating me. I let off the gas and my car starts slowing down. Usually this works with tailgaters. Not this time. We got up to a red light, cars on all sides of me. I locked my door, unholstered my Colt and set it on my lap (this is illegal in states where you cannot OC) When traffic came to a stop, the passenger of the white car tailgating me (an early to mid 20s white male with a thick jacket and turned DC cap) got out and approached my driver door. I waved my hand and then pat the Colt sitting on my lap. He immediately jogged back to his car and they went a different direction with the green light.
Incident 4: late 2013. My brother forgot his phone and I was driving to his work to give it to him. It was near zero degrees outside, lots of snow and ice, maybe a dozen cars on the road. I notice a car waiving through traffic like Mario-Cart and approaching fast. I was traveling next to another car. Everyone but this one car was doing @35 in this 55 zone due to weather. This car got right behind me and tailgated me all the way to my brother's work. When I got there, the guy stopped back a ways. I turned on my phone's voice recorder and lifted my Carheart jacket over the handle of my Colt (Carheart lengths are short and this is pretty easy to do accidentally, too). The guy got out of his car and started sharing some creative adjectives Something along the lines of "...you cut me off you little ****....you know what you did....*F-bomb here & there*. Pretending get something from the driver seat, I turned my gun side to him. He took obvious note of the gun, stopped for a moment, then walked backwards to his care sharing a few more colorful adjectives, and left.
Incident 5: Mid 2014. I was driving cross-country and taking a nap at a rest stop. Around 2am a man came knocking on my car, obviously drunk, “asking” for money in that I-want-to-seem-nice-but-I’m-not-leaving-until-I-get-what-I-want style typical of drunks. At first I pretended to be asleep. He kept knocking. So I cracked the window and asked him to leave me alone. He kept talking. I listened to his shpeel about how his car was broke etc etc, then told him I don’t travel with cash, only my debt card, so I couldn’t help him. He persisted “oh come on I know you have something in there…” I turned on my commanding tone and ordered him to leave. He got pissed, hit the roof of my car and shared a few colorful adjectives. I turned on my dome light so he could see me clearly; I unholstered my Sig and set it on my lap. He took note. I looked him in the eye and said “leave”. He said “well **** man…” and, still talking, walked out of sight (many cars there, I couldn’t see him). I started the car and went to the next rest stop to finish my nap.
Incident 1: early 2000s. I began carrying a gun due to a local snake and feral dog problem. At the time, the city was spending all of its money on road repairs and killing bugs, and just didn’t seem to have a few dollars left to pay animal control to round up the infestation of prairie rattlesnakes and bullsnakes. Smaller towns were also visited by small packs of feral dogs. My first gun was a snub noes revolver which I typically loaded with snake shot. I remodeled kitchens and bathrooms at the time, often out in these small towns and remote locations where the snakes and dogs were a bigger problem.
Incident 2: on or about 2005-6. I was doing household chores during one evening while the wife was at her job. My 4 y/o son was asleep in his bed in his upstairs bedroom. While putting my son’s laundry away, a teen appeared at my son’s bedroom window (remember, second story), and began frantically trying to open it. My son was asleep directly under the window. I stepped over to the window, pulled out my revolver, pointed it at the teen and said “wrong house”. The look on his face was priceless. The teen scrambled down and ran across the yard only to be tackled by police seconds later. Since I had not called the police I was curious as to what was going on. Apparently this teen was just involved in a gang beating-death just a few houses away and was running from the police when he tried to brake into my son’s window.
Incident 3: late 2012. I pulled out of a car wash onto a somewhat busy main road. A white car behind me immediately honked. I guess they thought I had just cut them off. If I did it wasn't intentional. Anyway as I drive down the road they begin tailgating me. I let off the gas and my car starts slowing down. Usually this works with tailgaters. Not this time. We got up to a red light, cars on all sides of me. I locked my door, unholstered my Colt and set it on my lap (this is illegal in states where you cannot OC) When traffic came to a stop, the passenger of the white car tailgating me (an early to mid 20s white male with a thick jacket and turned DC cap) got out and approached my driver door. I waved my hand and then pat the Colt sitting on my lap. He immediately jogged back to his car and they went a different direction with the green light.
Incident 4: late 2013. My brother forgot his phone and I was driving to his work to give it to him. It was near zero degrees outside, lots of snow and ice, maybe a dozen cars on the road. I notice a car waiving through traffic like Mario-Cart and approaching fast. I was traveling next to another car. Everyone but this one car was doing @35 in this 55 zone due to weather. This car got right behind me and tailgated me all the way to my brother's work. When I got there, the guy stopped back a ways. I turned on my phone's voice recorder and lifted my Carheart jacket over the handle of my Colt (Carheart lengths are short and this is pretty easy to do accidentally, too). The guy got out of his car and started sharing some creative adjectives Something along the lines of "...you cut me off you little ****....you know what you did....*F-bomb here & there*. Pretending get something from the driver seat, I turned my gun side to him. He took obvious note of the gun, stopped for a moment, then walked backwards to his care sharing a few more colorful adjectives, and left.
Incident 5: Mid 2014. I was driving cross-country and taking a nap at a rest stop. Around 2am a man came knocking on my car, obviously drunk, “asking” for money in that I-want-to-seem-nice-but-I’m-not-leaving-until-I-get-what-I-want style typical of drunks. At first I pretended to be asleep. He kept knocking. So I cracked the window and asked him to leave me alone. He kept talking. I listened to his shpeel about how his car was broke etc etc, then told him I don’t travel with cash, only my debt card, so I couldn’t help him. He persisted “oh come on I know you have something in there…” I turned on my commanding tone and ordered him to leave. He got pissed, hit the roof of my car and shared a few colorful adjectives. I turned on my dome light so he could see me clearly; I unholstered my Sig and set it on my lap. He took note. I looked him in the eye and said “leave”. He said “well **** man…” and, still talking, walked out of sight (many cars there, I couldn’t see him). I started the car and went to the next rest stop to finish my nap.
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Re: If guns were banned....
This doesn't answer any of my questions. All you've done is ask a bunch of questions and didn't answer one single one of mine.
Considering the war on drugs is a failure, I'd say pretty crappy.
Ask the Boston Bombers.
Probably the same way that illegal drugs currently do. Notice how well that's turned out?
It wouldn't, because there would still be criminals able to get guns.
Called free speech dude. Or are you going to make even talking about guns illegal also?
Assuming that they are following the law, there's always bows and crossbows. If they're not willing to follow the law, lots of places in the US where no one is around.
So, you won't ever be able to stop gun crime. Gotcha.
Yeah, all this has worked SOOOO well with drugs huh and speak easies huh?
Probably not, unless of course you're going to outlaw free speech now?
Well, according to you it couldn't happen that all guns would be rounded up. Looks like black powder will have no problem being used. (and yes, black powder works just fine with barrel projectiles)
So, when are you going to answer my questions?
This doesn't answer any of my questions. All you've done is ask a bunch of questions and didn't answer one single one of mine.
Considering the war on drugs is a failure, I'd say pretty crappy.
Ask the Boston Bombers.
Probably the same way that illegal drugs currently do. Notice how well that's turned out?
It wouldn't, because there would still be criminals able to get guns.
Called free speech dude. Or are you going to make even talking about guns illegal also?
Assuming that they are following the law, there's always bows and crossbows. If they're not willing to follow the law, lots of places in the US where no one is around.
So, you won't ever be able to stop gun crime. Gotcha.
Yeah, all this has worked SOOOO well with drugs huh and speak easies huh?
Probably not, unless of course you're going to outlaw free speech now?
Well, according to you it couldn't happen that all guns would be rounded up. Looks like black powder will have no problem being used. (and yes, black powder works just fine with barrel projectiles)
So, when are you going to answer my questions?
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Re: If guns were banned....
Australia doesn't have the gun culture that we do. Australia is also a much smaller country population wise than the US. And good luck limiting ammo to 50 rounds per year. Particularly since people can make their own ammo. Also good luck in making them return any unused rounds to the range. All they have to do is tell the person that they used em all up. And since you proposed this it would mean that people would still be allowed to carry guns, which means that they can carry ammo since a gun without ammo is useless.
Australia doesn't have the gun culture that we do. Australia is also a much smaller country population wise than the US. And good luck limiting ammo to 50 rounds per year. Particularly since people can make their own ammo. Also good luck in making them return any unused rounds to the range. All they have to do is tell the person that they used em all up. And since you proposed this it would mean that people would still be allowed to carry guns, which means that they can carry ammo since a gun without ammo is useless.
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Re: If guns were banned....
I bet the guy who wants 50 rounds per year limit will claim he's not a gun banner when in reality he wants to completely ban all of the shooting sports. These gun banners never think things through or they think we are too stupid to understand what their real goal is--and its not crime control. Criminals are prohibited from owning any ammunition right now
I bet the guy who wants 50 rounds per year limit will claim he's not a gun banner when in reality he wants to completely ban all of the shooting sports. These gun banners never think things through or they think we are too stupid to understand what their real goal is--and its not crime control. Criminals are prohibited from owning any ammunition right now
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Re: If guns were banned....
We could make gunpowder a restricted item much like actives or sudafed? As for gun ranges an audit of the target range before the shooter leaves would reveal the truth. There is no right to ammo, several different kinds have been banned. In any event 50 round a year is plenty for self defense.
We could make gunpowder a restricted item much like actives or sudafed? As for gun ranges an audit of the target range before the shooter leaves would reveal the truth. There is no right to ammo, several different kinds have been banned. In any event 50 round a year is plenty for self defense.
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Re: If guns were banned....
My neighbor died a couple years ago, he had thousand and thousands of rounds stored in his garage. His son was oblivious about what this would mean in the high temperatures of the summer. Man it sounded like war...
My neighbor died a couple years ago, he had thousand and thousands of rounds stored in his garage. His son was oblivious about what this would mean in the high temperatures of the summer. Man it sounded like war...
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Re: If guns were banned....
There was a guy arrested a couple of weeks ago who had amassed 5000 guns and a 100k rounds of ammo. Now I assume this is legal (it shouldn't be) but he had been declared incompetent and was bared from owning any. Our gun laws are ridiculously weak.
There was a guy arrested a couple of weeks ago who had amassed 5000 guns and a 100k rounds of ammo. Now I assume this is legal (it shouldn't be) but he had been declared incompetent and was bared from owning any. Our gun laws are ridiculously weak.
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Re: If guns were banned....
We do have criminals in this country... just as you do.
I prefer that my neighbors and I be able to defend ourselves if a criminal tries to kill me or them for whatever reason...
You appear to fear your neighbors and yourself and prefer that they (and you) are disarmed so that when a criminal comes in to kill or beat or rape them (or you) the criminal succeeds
We do have criminals in this country... just as you do.
I prefer that my neighbors and I be able to defend ourselves if a criminal tries to kill me or them for whatever reason...
You appear to fear your neighbors and yourself and prefer that they (and you) are disarmed so that when a criminal comes in to kill or beat or rape them (or you) the criminal succeeds
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Re: If guns were banned....
Why shouldn't it be?
Do you contend that a murderer who plans on killing you.. will be less likely to kill you if he has one firearm.. than if he has 10? Or 5000 guns?
You are just letting emotion get ahead of rational thinking.
Come now.
by the way... you pointed out that the guy was declared incompetent and the law barred him from owning a firearm... so the barred him from having a firearm.. how does that make the law weak?
Why shouldn't it be?
Do you contend that a murderer who plans on killing you.. will be less likely to kill you if he has one firearm.. than if he has 10? Or 5000 guns?
You are just letting emotion get ahead of rational thinking.
Come now.
by the way... you pointed out that the guy was declared incompetent and the law barred him from owning a firearm... so the barred him from having a firearm.. how does that make the law weak?
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Re: If guns were banned....
50 rounds a year is no where near enough if you plan to carry a firearm for defense.
50 rounds a year is no where near enough if you plan to carry a firearm for defense.
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Re: If guns were banned....
Not to mention that people who keep pointing to Australia in the debate about mass shootings are frankly being ridiculously dishonest OR are horribly ignorant of how things are counted in Australia and the horribly politicization and propagandizing going on with "shooting" numbers reported in the US over the past few years.
If we use Australia's definition of what a mass killing is, and apply it to instances in the United States, what do we find? We find that over the past 20 years America averages 1.75 mass killings per year, or 3.1 per year since 2005.
So even look at the worse number, looking only at the past 10 years, it's 3.1 to 0.
HOWEVER....
It's also 320 million compared to 23 million.
So if we look at it per capita....
The United States over the past 10 years has had 0.22 shootings per 23 million people compared to Australia having 0 per 23 million.
Is .22 worse than 0? Sure.
Is it a legitimately significant and alarming number that demands we must take action immediately regardless of the realities of our constitutional principles? Absolutely not.
It's absolutely LUDICROUS that people in this country are wanting to simultaneously take unverified, incorrect, poorly decided upon, non-historical numbers from two random amateur bloggers who's data is in no way peer reviewed or scientific nor official in nature.....and then compare that number to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT METRIC that is actually established by an official agency within a foreign government....and then act like the two things are the same and should be acted upon.
Yeah, 355 to 0 per year looks ridiculous. But it's an inaccurate and dishonest comparison.
.22 to 0 per year looks a LOT different and is a LOT more accurate.
Not to mention that people who keep pointing to Australia in the debate about mass shootings are frankly being ridiculously dishonest OR are horribly ignorant of how things are counted in Australia and the horribly politicization and propagandizing going on with "shooting" numbers reported in the US over the past few years.
If we use Australia's definition of what a mass killing is, and apply it to instances in the United States, what do we find? We find that over the past 20 years America averages 1.75 mass killings per year, or 3.1 per year since 2005.
So even look at the worse number, looking only at the past 10 years, it's 3.1 to 0.
HOWEVER....
It's also 320 million compared to 23 million.
So if we look at it per capita....
The United States over the past 10 years has had 0.22 shootings per 23 million people compared to Australia having 0 per 23 million.
Is .22 worse than 0? Sure.
Is it a legitimately significant and alarming number that demands we must take action immediately regardless of the realities of our constitutional principles? Absolutely not.
It's absolutely LUDICROUS that people in this country are wanting to simultaneously take unverified, incorrect, poorly decided upon, non-historical numbers from two random amateur bloggers who's data is in no way peer reviewed or scientific nor official in nature.....and then compare that number to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT METRIC that is actually established by an official agency within a foreign government....and then act like the two things are the same and should be acted upon.
Yeah, 355 to 0 per year looks ridiculous. But it's an inaccurate and dishonest comparison.
.22 to 0 per year looks a LOT different and is a LOT more accurate.
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Re: If guns were banned....
Really? Where do you live - the hood in Chicago? I've never even owned a gun much less wish I had one for self defense. Needing more tha 50 rounds suggests that you've been in fear of your life 7-10 times a year. Scared much? Maybe the problem is you
.
Really? Where do you live - the hood in Chicago? I've never even owned a gun much less wish I had one for self defense. Needing more tha 50 rounds suggests that you've been in fear of your life 7-10 times a year. Scared much? Maybe the problem is you
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Re: If guns were banned....
My reasonable position is that two guns per person is more than enough. The law in question is toothless as he managed to acquire 5000 of them. If they can trace the guns back to the sellers my reasonable proposal is tha a law be created so that each of these miscreants are guilty of a felony.
My reasonable position is that two guns per person is more than enough. The law in question is toothless as he managed to acquire 5000 of them. If they can trace the guns back to the sellers my reasonable proposal is tha a law be created so that each of these miscreants are guilty of a felony.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 42,744
- Reaction score
- 22,569
- Location
- Bonners Ferry ID USA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Re: If guns were banned....
Several different types of guns have been banned also. Doesn't mean that there is no right to ammo.
And good luck restricting it also. Gun powder is actually quite easy to make and the ingredients for it are quite common.
Potassium Nitrate
Sulfur
Charcoal
are all the ingredients needed to make Gunpowder All of them are common ingredients and are used in a variety of purposes.
Several different types of guns have been banned also. Doesn't mean that there is no right to ammo.
And good luck restricting it also. Gun powder is actually quite easy to make and the ingredients for it are quite common.
Potassium Nitrate
Sulfur
Charcoal
are all the ingredients needed to make Gunpowder All of them are common ingredients and are used in a variety of purposes.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 42,744
- Reaction score
- 22,569
- Location
- Bonners Ferry ID USA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Re: If guns were banned....
What about training? 50 rounds is hardly enough to train properly. Even cops use more than that and an average gun owner is usually a better marksmen than a cop.
What about training? 50 rounds is hardly enough to train properly. Even cops use more than that and an average gun owner is usually a better marksmen than a cop.
- Joined
- Jan 10, 2009
- Messages
- 42,744
- Reaction score
- 22,569
- Location
- Bonners Ferry ID USA
- Gender
- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
Re: If guns were banned....
That is reasonable to YOU. Of course if gun-banners had their way they're "reasonable" position is 0 guns per person is perfect. There is no reasonable position to limit those that are honest.
That is reasonable to YOU. Of course if gun-banners had their way they're "reasonable" position is 0 guns per person is perfect. There is no reasonable position to limit those that are honest.