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Things not to do with a gun[W:28]

Re: Things not to do with a gun

Well, based on AZ law it's a reasonable assumption that he won't be allowed to own a gun legally ever again.

Only because of the felony charges that will probably be held.

Constitutional carry is a carte blanche one strike policy.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

In Arizona there are no gun laws. It is called Constitutional carry.

Grandpa in this case (a fairly young grandpa in his 50's) likely won't be asked to babysit anymore however.

And at the same time he just coughed up all his Constitutional carrying rights at once in one day of stupidity.

No gun laws in Arizona? really? so a 5 year old kid can walk into "Gun world" and pull out dad's credit card and buy an AR-10

or you can start blasting jack rabbits in the middle of Prescott with a Aerotech Mini gun?
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Moderator's Warning:
The lean of other posters, is not the topic of the thread. Please stick to discussing the OP and not each other.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Some stories are just too hard to believe.

This one looks fairly legit. Just incredible however.

By the way, you cannot cannot cannot leave a kid in a car alone. That is pure stupidity.

Stay with the kid or bring the kid with you.

There is no real shortage of Darwin Award contestants. Most the time they seem to have the luck of the devil in surviving.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

And I'd believe you if you weren't a Progressive.

What you don't get is that with the exception of my stance on LGBT rights, most of my political beliefs are fairly centrist...if this were the 1980's. It's just that the Right has moved so far to the right since then that my centrist stance now looks like I'm on the far Left.

It's been noted before that America's Right is much farther to the right than before. Time was, the far-right John Birch Society wasn't even allowed at CPAC because they were considered right-wing nutcases by most of the GOP...but now they're the freaking SPONSORS of CPAC.

That's not the only example, either. Less than a decade ago, the GOP in Congress voted almost unanimously to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act...but now it's Big News to find a Republican in Congress who would dare to consider doing so. Back in the early 1990's, it was normal for a Republican to support action to stop climate change - it was only common sense, especially after the world's nations as a whole took action about the ozone holes in the 1970's. But now? Again, it's suddenly Big News to find a Republican in Congress who says that the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists just might have a clue when it comes to our climate. Hell, even the heart of Obamacare - the Individual Mandate - was an invention of the Heritage Foundation - your politicians supported the "Heritage Plan" (Gingrich submitted it for a House vote with 72 Republican co-sponsors)...and Romney put it into practice in Massachusetts. But now? Y'all have tried to repeal Obamacare 60+ times.

No, guy, y'all moved the goalposts waaaaaaaay over to the right, so far that you can't really tell that we on the Left are (again, with the exception of LGBT rights) pretty much in what would have been considered the political MIDDLE in the 1980's. Instead, in y'all's determination to move to the right, y'all tore down the end-zone seats and moved the goal post out on the other side of the parking lot, and THEN you're wondering why the heck we're not following you out there.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

What you don't get is that with the exception of my stance on LGBT rights, most of my political beliefs are fairly centrist...if this were the 1980's. It's just that the Right has moved so far to the right since then that my centrist stance now looks like I'm on the far Left.

It's been noted before that America's Right is much farther to the right than before. Time was, the far-right John Birch Society wasn't even allowed at CPAC because they were considered right-wing nutcases by most of the GOP...but now they're the freaking SPONSORS of CPAC.

That's not the only example, either. Less than a decade ago, the GOP in Congress voted almost unanimously to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act...but now it's Big News to find a Republican in Congress who would dare to consider doing so. Back in the early 1990's, it was normal for a Republican to support action to stop climate change - it was only common sense, especially after the world's nations as a whole took action about the ozone holes in the 1970's. But now? Again, it's suddenly Big News to find a Republican in Congress who says that the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists just might have a clue when it comes to our climate. Hell, even the heart of Obamacare - the Individual Mandate - was an invention of the Heritage Foundation - your politicians supported the "Heritage Plan" (Gingrich submitted it for a House vote with 72 Republican co-sponsors)...and Romney put it into practice in Massachusetts. But now? Y'all have tried to repeal Obamacare 60+ times.

No, guy, y'all moved the goalposts waaaaaaaay over to the right, so far that you can't really tell that we on the Left are (again, with the exception of LGBT rights) pretty much in what would have been considered the political MIDDLE in the 1980's. Instead, in y'all's determination to move to the right, y'all tore down the end-zone seats and moved the goal post out on the other side of the parking lot, and THEN you're wondering why the heck we're not following you out there.

Prior to McGovern, Democrats were huge on defense. So don't talk to me about moving to the extreme when the Left is far from guiltless.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

What you don't get is that with the exception of my stance on LGBT rights, most of my political beliefs are fairly centrist...if this were the 1980's. It's just that the Right has moved so far to the right since then that my centrist stance now looks like I'm on the far Left.

It's been noted before that America's Right is much farther to the right than before. Time was, the far-right John Birch Society wasn't even allowed at CPAC because they were considered right-wing nutcases by most of the GOP...but now they're the freaking SPONSORS of CPAC.

That's not the only example, either. Less than a decade ago, the GOP in Congress voted almost unanimously to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act...but now it's Big News to find a Republican in Congress who would dare to consider doing so. Back in the early 1990's, it was normal for a Republican to support action to stop climate change - it was only common sense, especially after the world's nations as a whole took action about the ozone holes in the 1970's. But now? Again, it's suddenly Big News to find a Republican in Congress who says that the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists just might have a clue when it comes to our climate. Hell, even the heart of Obamacare - the Individual Mandate - was an invention of the Heritage Foundation - your politicians supported the "Heritage Plan" (Gingrich submitted it for a House vote with 72 Republican co-sponsors)...and Romney put it into practice in Massachusetts. But now? Y'all have tried to repeal Obamacare 60+ times.

No, guy, y'all moved the goalposts waaaaaaaay over to the right, so far that you can't really tell that we on the Left are (again, with the exception of LGBT rights) pretty much in what would have been considered the political MIDDLE in the 1980's. Instead, in y'all's determination to move to the right, y'all tore down the end-zone seats and moved the goal post out on the other side of the parking lot, and THEN you're wondering why the heck we're not following you out there.

the Democrat party was not anti gun for most of the 40s, 50s, and early 60s. the union and rural and southern Democrats never really were. But when Nixon started attacking the Dems-who controlled the courts, the presidency and Congress in the mid sixties as being soft on mainly black street crime, the Dems had to come up with an argument that they were tough on criminals without upsetting their increasingly important black constituency. and gun control was the fraud they settled on to pretend they were doing something about drug fueled inner city street crime without actually upsetting blacks.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Prior to McGovern, Democrats were huge on defense. So don't talk to me about moving to the extreme when the Left is far from guiltless.

brilliant point. the failure of the Nam war caused the Democrat party to shrink away from "Nation building" , US Primacy and say defending Israel. its this neo-isolationism that created the original NEO CON movement which was generally socially liberal American Jews who were dismayed their party no longer valued Israel or wanted to extend American ideals over seas.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

brilliant point. the failure of the Nam war caused the Democrat party to shrink away from "Nation building" , US Primacy and say defending Israel. its this neo-isolationism that created the original NEO CON movement which was generally socially liberal American Jews who were dismayed their party no longer valued Israel or wanted to extend American ideals over seas.

During WWII, it was the Republicans who were isolationists.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

During WWII, it was the Republicans who were isolationists.

true enough and that is the more proper conservative position rather than the country building JFK was so in favor of.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

true enough and that is the more proper conservative position rather than the country building JFK was so in favor of.

Yes, that's the Paleocon view like Buchanan. I have mixed feelings about it, because I don't we can always just stand around watching.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

There is no real shortage of Darwin Award contestants. Most the time they seem to have the luck of the devil in surviving.

Exactly! They do indeed.

I guess somebody has got to watch over them after all.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

That's a completely different scenario but I'll play along anyway.

Just because open carry is legal doesn't mean that the cops should simply ignore it. When someone is doing something highly unusual, armed or not, the cops should investigate. That's part of the reason I don't support the "open carry" groups and why you've seen my posts to that effect (if you bothered to read them).

In all cases it should be the actions of the individual that dictate their threat level. A person merely walking down the street with a gun in a holster or slung on their shoulder probably isn't a threat to anyone though long guns are highly unusual in some areas. That same person acting irritated or erratic, however, is more of a threat. That threat doesn't stem from the firearm though, it stems from their actions.

The error with your logic is that a person who is not openly carrying a firearm (though one may be concealed) is not obviously a threat, especially in the eyes of mothers with their children around...which is one reason why I'm not rabidly against concealed-carry (as long as the person has a proper background check). However, a person openly carrying a firearm in a populated area IS - in the eyes of almost everyone around - most certainly a threat.

In other words, it doesn't matter how peaceful that person's intentions, in the eyes of everyone around, he's a threat...and when it comes to the public, perception most certainly is reality. That person - or you yourself - can explain to the mom with her kids till you're blue in the face how peaceful and trustworthy that guy is, but it does. not. matter. She sees her kids, and she sees that guy openly carrying guns...so to her, he IS a threat.

Now if this were out in the rural countryside, a guy with a couple of rifles on the gun rack in his truck, no one would look twice - because out in the boonies, guns are a really nice thing to have when there's snakes or rabid dogs or whatever...that's the way things were where I grew up. But in the city...no. The guy openly carrying firearms is in the eyes of almost everyone around, a threat.

And that is a disruption of the peace, of society itself...and society will react to the fear that it feels because of such a threat.

In other words, it's no longer a matter of right or wrong, or of the actual intent of the person, but of the public's perception of a threat to its general welfare, backed up by too many massacres of innocent men, women, and children to count.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

The error with your logic is that a person who is not openly carrying a firearm (though one may be concealed) is not obviously a threat, especially in the eyes of mothers with their children around...which is one reason why I'm not rabidly against concealed-carry (as long as the person has a proper background check). However, a person openly carrying a firearm in a populated area IS - in the eyes of almost everyone around - most certainly a threat.

In other words, it doesn't matter how peaceful that person's intentions, in the eyes of everyone around, he's a threat...and when it comes to the public, perception most certainly is reality. That person - or you yourself - can explain to the mom with her kids till you're blue in the face how peaceful and trustworthy that guy is, but it does. not. matter. She sees her kids, and she sees that guy openly carrying guns...so to her, he IS a threat.

Now if this were out in the rural countryside, a guy with a couple of rifles on the gun rack in his truck, no one would look twice - because out in the boonies, guns are a really nice thing to have when there's snakes or rabid dogs or whatever...that's the way things were where I grew up. But in the city...no. The guy openly carrying firearms is in the eyes of almost everyone around, a threat.

And that is a disruption of the peace, of society itself...and society will react to the fear that it feels because of such a threat.

In other words, it's no longer a matter of right or wrong, or of the actual intent of the person, but of the public's perception of a threat to its general welfare, backed up by too many massacres of innocent men, women, and children to count.

We see people openly carrying guns every day that most people don't consider to be a threat. They're cops and people actually call them when they perceive someone else to be a threat. Again, it's the totality of the circumstances that determine a threat, not just the gun.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

We see people openly carrying guns every day that most people don't consider to be a threat. They're cops and people actually call them when they perceive someone else to be a threat. Again, it's the totality of the circumstances that determine a threat, not just the gun.

And you of course see the error in your 'logic'. Most everyone sees that policeman as someone whose sworn duty it is to protect them. On the other hand, any non-policeman walking the street openly carrying a firearm is not seen as someone with a sworn duty to serve and protect the public, and thus will be seen by all and sundry as a threat...

...and there is NOTHING that anyone can ever do to make it seem any other way.

I mean, really, guy, if Arizona passed an open-carry law (if they haven't already), if a bunch of gangsta-dressed black guys walked down the street openly carrying pistols and AR-15's, and even walked into the local McDonald's or Wal-Mart, what do you really think would happen? Do you really think that the mostly-white population wouldn't be freaking out, that there wouldn't be dozens of 911 calls and police cars swarming the vicinity, armed to the teeth just because a bunch of black guys are in COMPLETE COMPLIANCE with Arizona state law?

Come on now, use a bit of common sense, willya?
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

the Democrat party was not anti gun for most of the 40s, 50s, and early 60s. the union and rural and southern Democrats never really were. But when Nixon started attacking the Dems-who controlled the courts, the presidency and Congress in the mid sixties as being soft on mainly black street crime, the Dems had to come up with an argument that they were tough on criminals without upsetting their increasingly important black constituency. and gun control was the fraud they settled on to pretend they were doing something about drug fueled inner city street crime without actually upsetting blacks.

There you go again, TD, conflating the Democratic party of fifty years ago with the Democratic party of today. I do wish you'd do something different and honestly read up on how and why the two major parties changed over the past half century.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Prior to McGovern, Democrats were huge on defense. So don't talk to me about moving to the extreme when the Left is far from guiltless.

"Prior to McGovern" was almost fifty years ago. At that time, just as there were many Democrats who were strongly conservative - particularly in the South before Nixon's "Southern Strategy" convinced the "negrophobes" (which is how they were referred to) to vote Republican - there were many Republicans who were quite liberal.

Things have changed greatly since then - the parties have polarized...but the GOP is still the party most beloved by the negrophobes:

In a new post on document-dumping site pastebin, Anonymous names US Senators Thom Tillis (R-N.C.), John Cornyn (R-Tx.), Dan Coats (R-In.) and Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.) as members of the KKK. Anonymous also outed several mayors of major US cities, including Madeline Rogero of Knoxville, Tennessee; Jim Gray of Lexington, Kentucky; Paul D. Fraim of Norfolk, Virginia; Kent Guinn of Ocala, Florida; and Tom Henry of Fort Wayne, Indiana.

Thom Tillis, who is listed as a member of the United Northern and Southern Knights of the KKK in Thornton, was North Carolina’s Speaker of the House before being elected to the US Senate in 2014. Tillis was behind the implementation of numerous far-right policies in the Tar Heel State including voter ID laws, public education cuts, restrictions on abortion that were later struck down by federal judges, tax hikes on low-income earners to pay for tax cuts for the wealthy, among others.

John Cornyn, who Anonymous claims is affililiated with the United White Knights of the KKK, is the current Majority Whip, making him one of the most powerful members of the US Senate. Johnny Isakson is listed as a member of the Original Knight Riders of the KKK. Isakson served as a U.S. Congressman for Georgia’s 6th Congressional District between 1999 and 2005. He currently serves as Georgia’s senior US Senator, and is up for re-election in 2016. Dan Coats is Indiana’s senior US Senator, and is listed as a member of the United Northern and Southern Knights of the KKK — along with Thom Tillis.

Jim Gray of Lexington, Kentucky, who Anonymous says is a member of the United Northern and Southern Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, is openly gay.


Sitting U.S. senators in the KKK? Today? In 2015? Looks that way, huh? And all in the Republican party.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

And you of course see the error in your 'logic'. Most everyone sees that policeman as someone whose sworn duty it is to protect them. On the other hand, any non-policeman walking the street openly carrying a firearm is not seen as someone with a sworn duty to serve and protect the public, and thus will be seen by all and sundry as a threat...

...and there is NOTHING that anyone can ever do to make it seem any other way.

I mean, really, guy, if Arizona passed an open-carry law (if they haven't already), if a bunch of gangsta-dressed black guys walked down the street openly carrying pistols and AR-15's, and even walked into the local McDonald's or Wal-Mart, what do you really think would happen? Do you really think that the mostly-white population wouldn't be freaking out, that there wouldn't be dozens of 911 calls and police cars swarming the vicinity, armed to the teeth just because a bunch of black guys are in COMPLETE COMPLIANCE with Arizona state law?

Come on now, use a bit of common sense, willya?

Arizona happens to be a Constitutional carry state. We don't require a permit or license to carry openly or concealed and seeing people...you'll love this...open carrying in banks isn't unusual. Frankly, if I saw a whole group of people openly carrying weapons I'd assume that they were coming from a shooting event.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

There you go again, TD, conflating the Democratic party of fifty years ago with the Democratic party of today. I do wish you'd do something different and honestly read up on how and why the two major parties changed over the past half century.


you're right-40 years ago the Dem party really was only "anti gun" as a byproduct of trying to pretend the Dem party was serious about black street crime. The current Dem party is now motivated by a desire to punish and weaken the NRA
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

you're right-40 years ago the Dem party really was only "anti gun" as a byproduct of trying to pretend the Dem party was serious about black street crime. The current Dem party is now motivated by a desire to punish and weaken the NRA

Yeah, in TD World the Dems are only about doing Bad Things to people they don't like...and whatever Bad Thing that TD can think of, well, that means that's precisely what the Dems must be doing. Mm-hmm...riiiiiight.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Yeah, in TD World the Dems are only about doing Bad Things to people they don't like...and whatever Bad Thing that TD can think of, well, that means that's precisely what the Dems must be doing. Mm-hmm...riiiiiight.

uh that is incoherent psychobabble
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Arizona happens to be a Constitutional carry state. We don't require a permit or license to carry openly or concealed and seeing people...you'll love this...open carrying in banks isn't unusual. Frankly, if I saw a whole group of people openly carrying weapons I'd assume that they were coming from a shooting event.

Riiiiiight. And everyone is just as unconcerned as you, too...'cause if you feel a certain way, then all the other people, even the mothers with their kids (but not those horrible lib'ruls) think just the same way you do. Mm-hmm.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Riiiiiight. And everyone is just as unconcerned as you, too...'cause if you feel a certain way, then all the other people, even the mothers with their kids (but not those horrible lib'ruls) think just the same way you do. Mm-hmm.

I won't speak for everyone but it's not at all uncommon and I have never seen anyone around here freak out just because someone near them has a gun.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

I won't speak for everyone but it's not at all uncommon and I have never seen anyone around here freak out just because someone near them has a gun.

Then you haven't paid attention to your local news. Try Googling "arizona news open carry" or add in "arrested" or "called 911".

Remember, where I grew up, open-carry was an accepted fact of life - because it was out in the boonies, and it was necessary. And Arizona is a mostly-rural state. I hope you see that I do understand that, and I support that right, because - again - where I grew up, it was necessary.

But in urban areas, open-carry is a Really Bad Idea. Why do you think that homicide rates are generally significantly higher in red states than in blue states? Fewer guns in urban areas equals fewer needless deaths.
 
Re: Things not to do with a gun

Then you haven't paid attention to your local news. Try Googling "arizona news open carry" or add in "arrested" or "called 911".

Remember, where I grew up, open-carry was an accepted fact of life - because it was out in the boonies, and it was necessary. And Arizona is a mostly-rural state. I hope you see that I do understand that, and I support that right, because - again - where I grew up, it was necessary.

But in urban areas, open-carry is a Really Bad Idea. Why do you think that homicide rates are generally significantly higher in red states than in blue states? Fewer guns in urban areas equals fewer needless deaths.

those who come from the ethnic group MOST LIKELY TO VOTE BLUE are the ones who cause most of the gUN CRIME
 
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