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Good Guy With a Gun Takes Out a Theater Shooter (yes, that's irony)

Like I just pointed out, this silliness is why I don't normally get involved in gun discussions. But for the record, no one EVER has alleged that laws against something prevent all bad stuff from happening, so the premise there is just laughably absurd.

Actually that premise is exactly what gun control advocates advocate. " If we outlawed guns.. then there would be no "gun deaths"..
 
What do the makers care? They are protected against lawsuits by the NRA.

No they are not.. that is completely and utterly false. False.. False.

Besides the fact that Riveroaks has not a clue what he is talking about.
 
Good guy with a gun takes out a theater shooter! GunFAIL CLXIII

First, I realize the first thing that gun freaks are going to freak out about is the "liberal source." Well, the sources for all these gun fail incidents is the news outlets in the locales where they occurred and each incident carries a link to that source. Daily Kos is simply the "clearinghouse" for these documented incidents. This, of course, will not stop the gun freaks and associated rightwingatarian fellow-travelers from totally ignoring those links and whining about this being "completely invalid." They wish.

Now to the headline incident (which falls into the category of "we have met the enemy and they are us," h/t Pogo):



And I particularly like this account of the "responsible-hunter gun owner" (emphasis added):



Enjoy what I would call another version of the rightwing clownshow were it not for the innocent blood that too-often gets spilled by these clods.

So someone is an idiot and I should have my rights taken away by force by men with guns?
 
Actually that premise is exactly what gun control advocates advocate. " If we outlawed guns.. then there would be no "gun deaths"..

And as we all know gun deaths are far worse than stabbing deaths. There is a huge difference in the violence level of one and the other. :eye roll:
 
I would have to see state law first. Here in CA signs on private party are not legally binding.

Although the state does have the rightful power to enact such laws (as opposed to the feds)... I personally find it gross that the wishes of the private owners of a given land are just tossed aside.
 
I would have to see state law first. Here in CA signs on private party are not legally binding.

Specific to firearms or generally? A "No Trespassing" sign doesn't have legal force in CA?
 
Shame a few kids and other innocent bystanders have to die every months but, hey, can't do anything about that, right? Now, if this were, say, a vaccine killing this many people every month those should have been outlawed long ago.

Should we ban the consumption of alcohol? Responsible for way more sensless deaths and I have never heard of someone fighting off a rapist with a fifth of brandy....
 
Specific to firearms or generally? A "No Trespassing" sign doesn't have legal force in CA?

Same in Florida. I like it. You shouldn't get in trouble for going into a place that is ordinarily open to the public.
 
No they're not. For example, my "Glock clone" is a Springfield XD. You have to disengage three safeties to fire it. The third safety is disengaged by pulling the trigger. The trigger can only be pulled if you disengage the grip and trigger safeties. You can literally throw the gun to the ground and it will not fire. I know this for a fact because I have tested it (unloaded). That's not unsafe. The Glock and M&P don't have the grip safety, but are very similar in operation otherwise.

Ah ... "my Glock clone ... ".

A bit biased are we maybe ??
 
And as we all know gun deaths are far worse than stabbing deaths. There is a huge difference in the violence level of one and the other. :eye roll:

Truly..
 
Glocks and Glock clones are simply unsafe.

How is a Glock any less safe than a double action revolver. Had a Glock for a long time. It is as safe as any other pistol I own/have owned. Chevies and Fords.
 
Should we ban the consumption of alcohol? Responsible for way more sensless deaths and I have never heard of someone fighting off a rapist with a fifth of brandy....

We should definitely penalize the combination of EtOH with shooting like we do with driving. Having CC legal in bars is a recipe for lots more EtOH related shootings. Any gun related "accident" or incident, even if no resulting in death or injury, that involves elevated BA should carry at least a 5 year ban on carrying a weapon with some kind of proof of completion of an EtOH cessation program before it's reinstated. Eliminate any claim for self-defense in a gun death or injury where the shooter's BAs is above the limit (and lower for that allowed for driving). We're not ever going to eliminate human stupidity but we can certainly not encourage it and punish it when it does cause death. Thanks for this opportunity to address that issue.
 
How is a Glock any less safe than a double action revolver. Had a Glock for a long time. It is as safe as any other pistol I own/have owned. Chevies and Fords.

That's like claiming lightning can't kill you since it's never happened.
 
That's like claiming lightning can't kill you since it's never happened.

You are just about as likely to get killed by lightening as be killed in a firearm accident from a firearm malfunction.
 
So someone is an idiot and I should have my rights taken away by force by men with guns?

No, but maybe you could help by not being against so many idiots get guns and doing harm. But what am I thinking? Someone who believes that "Obama's coming to get my guns" or some other version of that paranoia isn't ever going to listen to or participate in a rational discussion.
 
You don't. Just like you can't track someone who uses a knife, bat, brick, foot, hand or any other type of weapon.
Easier to get away from those weapons than a gun in my opinion. :shrug:
 
Actually that premise is exactly what gun control advocates advocate. " If we outlawed guns.. then there would be no "gun deaths"..

Really? We pass a law and NO gun deaths? Said no one ever.... :roll:

And I love how the default position for "gun control advocates" is to "outlaw" presumably all guns. Yep, there is no daylight between complete legalization of any "arm" one can carry in any place at any time for any reason (except on private property of course!) up to and including .50 caliber submachine guns and to "outlaw" all guns. It's why these discussions are so pointless.
 
We should definitely penalize the combination of EtOH with shooting like we do with driving. Having CC legal in bars is a recipe for lots more EtOH related shootings. Any gun related "accident" or incident, even if no resulting in death or injury, that involves elevated BA should carry at least a 5 year ban on carrying a weapon with some kind of proof of completion of an EtOH cessation program before it's reinstated. Eliminate any claim for self-defense in a gun death or injury where the shooter's BAs is above the limit (and lower for that allowed for driving). We're not ever going to eliminate human stupidity but we can certainly not encourage it and punish it when it does cause death. Thanks for this opportunity to address that issue.

If saving lives is an issue in addition to reducing rape, suicides, violent crime and child abuse, should we also place further restrictions on alcohol consumption? Say ban the consumption of any alcohol, even by legal adults, on college property. Heavier penalties/tighter enforcement of underage drinking? If we could save one life it would be worth it. At least firearms serve a purpose and have saved lives....what does alcohol do other than help you dance better?
 
How is a Glock any less safe than a double action revolver. Had a Glock for a long time. It is as safe as any other pistol I own/have owned. Chevies and Fords.

What can I possibly say to convince you ??

It will probably take you shooting yourself in the leg too before you see the light as well and then move to a 1911A1 or one of it's double action / single action clones.
 
No, but maybe you could help by not being against so many idiots get guns and doing harm. But what am I thinking? Someone who believes that "Obama's coming to get my guns" or some other version of that paranoia isn't ever going to listen to or participate in a rational discussion.

Then I suggest you muzzle Prohibitionist bretheren that suggest that is exactly what they want to do. In addition I suggest the Prohibitionists stop using Australia and the UK as examples of how we should implement gun control here. They got there by "coming for my guns".....
 
You are just about as likely to get killed by lightening as be killed in a firearm accident from a firearm malfunction.

Well that's preposterous on its face. So far there've been only 26 lightning strike deaths this year ( NWS Lightning Fatalities ) and the latest annual accidental gun death total I could find was 505 for 2013 (CDC). Here's a hint (that I know in advance is wasted): you might want to look things up before plastering some complete nonsense up on a public forum like this. It could save some embarrassment, if you care about that sort of thing.
 
Then I suggest you muzzle Prohibitionist bretheren that suggest that is exactly what they want to do. In addition I suggest the Prohibitionists stop using Australia and the UK as examples of how we should implement gun control here. They got there by "coming for my guns".....

As I said, there's no possibility of any kind of calm, rational, mature discussion with this kind of mindset. And these are the people who fetishize guns and wonder why they're seen as a menace to public safety.
 
What can I possibly say to convince you ??

It will probably take you shooting yourself in the leg too before you see the light as well and then move to a 1911A1 or one of it's double action / single action clones.

How is a Glock any less safe than a double action revolver? Hell, most folks I know carry their 1911s in condition 1. Not any safer than a Glock. Chevies and Fords really.
 
If saving lives is an issue in addition to reducing rape, suicides, violent crime and child abuse, should we also place further restrictions on alcohol consumption? Say ban the consumption of any alcohol, even by legal adults, on college property. Heavier penalties/tighter enforcement of underage drinking? If we could save one life it would be worth it. At least firearms serve a purpose and have saved lives....what does alcohol do other than help you dance better?

You were making some sense until that last sentence which is pure mythology of the gun manufacturers' chief lobby, a.k.a. the NRA. It should be pointed out that it is much harder to for an underage person to get alcohol than to get a gun.
 
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