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So Who Are American Gun Owners?

jet57 said:
I don't think that's the point at all, nor do I think that ever been the mission. The point is quell gun violence, not reduce gun ownership. Nowhere in that article is a point made about lowering the number of gun owners. The black market in this country has run amuck and family and economic stresses have caused people to use more guns on themselves and their families and our society is getting ever sicker. How you (et al) can take facts like that roll them into some sort leftist conspiracy to takes guns away from people is just unreasonable and actually defies common sense.
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Actually this attempt to paint the situation as a crisis of epidemic proportions is unjustified and unreasonable, because it isn't true.

Violent crime is down, and has been trending downward for over 40 years. Gun accidents have been trending downward for about the same period. All this despite nearly a third of all households owning guns and owning a lot more of them.


Also, in point of fact, there IS a "conspiracy", chiefly among the Left, to take guns away from people. Look at California's gun control policies of the past couple decades; look at the way Chicago and Detroit tried to stall and work around Heller; look at the massive, monsterous obscenity of a so-called AWB Nancy Pelosi tried to foist on us a couple years ago. Look at most of the proposed laws endorsed and supported by the various gun control lobby groups, most of which would chiefly impact law abiding gun owners rather than criminals, and there is indeed a "conspiracy", chiefly among the left, to make gun ownership difficult and onerous for the average American.
 
jet57 said:
I don't think that's the point at all, nor do I think that ever been the mission. The point is quell gun violence, not reduce gun ownership. Nowhere in that article is a point made about lowering the number of gun owners. The black market in this country has run amuck and family and economic stresses have caused people to use more guns on themselves and their families and our society is getting ever sicker. How you (et al) can take facts like that roll them into some sort leftist conspiracy to takes guns away from people is just unreasonable and actually defies common sense.
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What is the ratio of gun deaths by suicide vs gang related shootings? Far more people are killed by long black men with guns than kill themselves. Until you address the matter of young black murderers you are building your case on a lie. There is a big difference between cover and concealment. You have neither.
 
As soon as you see THIS line...

"In 2013 alone, 33,636 persons were killed using a gun..."

you can stop right there and chalk it up to mindless anti-gun bull****. It is a lie.
 
jet57 said:
Oh really...

Mortality After Groin Hernia Surgery



Deaths following hernia surgery



U.S. Gun Deaths: Suicides Outnumber Homicides 2-to-1



That would make you wrong.
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Interesting that gun suicides are used as an excuse to try to ban guns, while the argument is being made for assisted suicide, which is legal in some states. It is also far safer for the rest of society as people jumping to their deaths or using cars causes far more collateral damage. If you don't like guns don't own one. But if you come for mine you will likely die trying. They you could become part of your own suicide statistics since you have been warned. If you think taking things from others will make you safer, I suggest forced sterilization for gun grabbers to limit the stupidity of future generations.
 
jet57 said:
Funny, I don't see your quoted number anywhere in your source.
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What?

scatt said:
There are probably more hernia deaths than murders from murder suicides.
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29oh6au.jpg
 
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scatt said:
What?



29oh6au.jpg
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Yeah, noooo... This what your URL produces:

www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr64/nvsr64_02.pdf

This announcement signals the release of the 2013 Mortality Multiple Cause Micro-data Files. The file
can be accessed at: Data Access - Vital Statistics Online.
This document contains the Detailed Tables for the National Vital Statistics Report (NVSR) “Deaths: Final
Data for 2013.” The complete version of this report (NVSR Volume 64, Number 2) will be published later.
Most of the tables make reference (in headnotes and footnotes) to the Technical Notes section of the
report, which will not be available until publication of the complete report. In the interim, the Technical
notes section of the report, “Deaths: Final Data for 2010” is available for your reference at:
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr61/nvsr61_04.pdf. The populations used to calculate death
rates were produced under a collaborative arrangement with the U.S. Census Bureau. If you have any
questions about the Detailed Tables in this document, please send an email to MortalityData@cdc.gov.
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And then 71 pages...


Your source is dated 2013, mine is 2011 and it is now 4 years later. It only stands to reason that with medical advances, your numbers have gone down, and with an increase in family violence mine have up.

Not bad for a simple off the top of my head assertion.

http://www.vpc.org/studies/amroul2012.pdf

Currently, no comprehensive national database or tracking system exists to systematically document the toll in death and injury of murder-suicide in the United States.a In order to more fully understand the human costs of murder-suicide, starting in 2002 the Violence Policy Center (VPC) began collecting and analyzing news reports of murder-suicides, resulting in a series of studies titled American Roulette: MurderSuicide in the United States. This is the fourth edition of the study.
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Medical studies estimate that between 1,000 and 1,500 deaths per year in the United States are the result of murder-suicide.3 This VPC analysis reveals that in the first half of 2011—
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VanceMack said:
As soon as you see THIS line...

"In 2013 alone, 33,636 persons were killed using a gun..."

you can stop right there and chalk it up to mindless anti-gun bull****. It is a lie.
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Technically the number is correct, as regards all firearm deaths. However it becomes disingenuous without noting that 2/3rds are suicides and a substantial number are accidents or defensive shootings.
 
Goshin said:
**** him and the horse he rode in on.

He wants to study 'gun culture' so he can persuade us to give it up. Says so in the article.


Also his stats are bull****, saying gun ownership correlates with firearm-suicides... not correlates with suicides but with firearm-suicides... of course it does! If someone doesn't have a gun they don't commit firearm-suicide! They commit some other suicide! Idiot.

He can bite my shiny metal ass.
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Your a robot? :shock:
 
tech30528 said:
Interesting that gun suicides are used as an excuse to try to ban guns, while the argument is being made for assisted suicide, which is legal in some states. It is also far safer for the rest of society as people jumping to their deaths or using cars causes far more collateral damage. If you don't like guns don't own one. But if you come for mine you will likely die trying. They you could become part of your own suicide statistics since you have been warned. If you think taking things from others will make you safer, I suggest forced sterilization for gun grabbers to limit the stupidity of future generations.
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Where do you get this nonsensical fantasy that suicide rates are being used to ban guns?
 
scatt said:
Page 21. Or you can search for the word "hernia" also.

Literally.
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It's always a lot easier to cite the page number in the source. And I just covered your information in another post.
 
jet57 said:
Where do you get this nonsensical fantasy that suicide rates are being used to ban guns?
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Because Gun suicides numbers are clomp together with gun murder numbers.
 
jet57 said:
Where do you get this nonsensical fantasy that suicide rates are being used to ban guns?
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Because they are grouped with othe gun deaths in order to make objects appear intrinsically evil. If suicides were removed from the equation the numbers would be far lower. Yet the "right to die" is still argued as it applies to assisted suicide. So it is not so much suicide that is the issue as it is the method. Suicide by gu makes the most sense. It insures sufficient power to get the job done and is very quick. I have seen plenty of people die badly from cancer, wasted away, poisoned and burned from chemo. For me, if was diagnosed as terminal I would much rather die on my own terms rather than imply be allowed to die after my insurance company has been picked clean by a for profit cancer industry.
 
Goshin said:
Actually this attempt to paint the situation as a crisis of epidemic proportions is unjustified and unreasonable, because it isn't true.

Violent crime is down, and has been trending downward for over 40 years. Gun accidents have been trending downward for about the same period. All this despite nearly a third of all households owning guns and owning a lot more of them.


Also, in point of fact, there IS a "conspiracy", chiefly among the Left, to take guns away from people. Look at California's gun control policies of the past couple decades; look at the way Chicago and Detroit tried to stall and work around Heller; look at the massive, monsterous obscenity of a so-called AWB Nancy Pelosi tried to foist on us a couple years ago. Look at most of the proposed laws endorsed and supported by the various gun control lobby groups, most of which would chiefly impact law abiding gun owners rather than criminals, and there is indeed a "conspiracy", chiefly among the left, to make gun ownership difficult and onerous for the average American.
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I think that your think is flawed and rather based on a politically driven paranoia that does not add up. Pellosi is a dope. Feinstein is a dope. Nothing they can conjure up together or separately has or will ever add up to a hill of beans. You're however leaving out one particular in this: all the mass shootings of late.

Crime statistics go down when economic strength goes up. We saw this in the Clinton years as well. If there are only 10 incidents of gun violence in a particular small town for example, that's going to be seen as 10 too many by anybody with any common sense at all. So what's wrong with wanting to bring down that number to 0 and leaving the 2nd amendment intact? Nothing! The country is flat out gun crazy these days and it only besmirches our society.
 
cpgrad08 said:
Because Gun suicides numbers are clomp together with gun murder numbers.
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DEATH RATES are death rates. If there's too many for a health society, then there's a problem. And we have a problem.
 
scatt said:
Searching for hernia is very easy for you.
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Proper citations are smarter, don't you think? You seem them in books and papers all the time...
 
Unicron said:
I wasn't aware I had one. I was just helping with a good statistics site.
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It was the 'misanthrope' word that I was questioning...
 
jet57 said:
You seem them in books and papers all the time...
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We have established that there are more hernia deaths than murder-suicide murders.

"seem"
 
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