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Realistic and Agreeable Gun Control?

TurtleDude said:
actually what will happen is gun confiscators will be shot. that would be the proper response
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Advocating the cold blooded murder of people is not an intellectual argument which helps your cause.
 
blaxshep said:
Ah, the liberal utopia argument, ban guns and every gun in America magically disappears along with the knowledge of how to construct one. Ok, got it. :screwy
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this is essentially the crux of the argument. I believe that a society without guns is safer and preferable to a society with guns. Countries such as England and Australia have largely achieved this state (exempting the very occasional tragedy such as the recent one in Australia).

Half measures to regulate guns (IDs, background checks etc) not only violate the 2a (which I don't think is a reason in and of itself to do something) but they are ineffectual because they only really curb law abiding gun owners. The only real solution to gun violence is to go completely cold turkey on them. This was manageable in the uk and aus due to a variety of factors (island nations, Small populations etc) but isn't really feasible in the us due to its own circumstances (vehement opposition, large gun culture, large borders).

Again, I think a society without guns is generally better, but that 'liberal utopia' society simply isn't possible via half measures, and the 'full' measures as taken in other countries just won't work in the US. It would take a huge social grassroots campaign which would have to change opinion of gun ownership before any top down regulation could be of any good effect.
 
Skorpius said:
So as far as gun control goes, I've never really been able to know the opinions of gun owners on the issues, as most people I know are vocally anti-gun.

What do you all think?
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I think you have discovered that your proposal is a waste of time here given the folks who dominate and control these gun threads. They DO NOT represent the great center of the American people and will oppose any effort to control weapons - some of which view them as a pseudo religion which has a greater place in their lives than anyone outside their family.

In short, its like trying to plant roses on the hard concrete of an airport tarmac.

Such a proposal is more than reasonable and might stand a chance if we could ever get the discussion in America out of the hands of the far right extremist who have made it their mission in life and cause celebre around which everything else revolves. How you do that is a giant mystery.
 
haymarket said:
Advocating the cold blooded murder of people is not an intellectual argument which helps your cause.
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shooting those who are violating your rights is a most excellent response. It also has a very good deterrent impact on other scumbags who might have the same nefarious designs.
 
TurtleDude said:
shooting those who are violating your rights is a most excellent response. It also has a very good deterrent impact on other scumbags who might have the same nefarious designs.
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There are legal procedures set up to challenge any attack upon legitimate rights. Are you not aware of legal remedies for these purposes?

Of course your remarks reveal that you do not want that sort of thing but greatly prefer the immediate power of the bullies hecklers veto which shuts down all opposition under the threat of a virtual all out war killing innocent people.

And that is disgusting and about as anti-American as any traitor can get.
 
haymarket said:
There are legal procedures set up to challenge any attack upon legitimate rights. Are you not aware of legal remedies for these purposes?

Of course your remarks reveal that you do not want that sort of thing but greatly prefer the immediate power of the bullies hecklers veto which shuts down all opposition under the threat of a virtual all out war killing innocent people.

And that is disgusting and about as anti-American as any traitor can get.
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I think those who want the government to do their dirty work are the most legitimate targets of those oppressed by moronic government actions. I don't want cowards who hide behind government agents having any safety

its people like you who bully others. You want to use the tyranny of the ignorant majority to oppress people who own guns because most gun owners aren't far left collectivists as you are.
 
TurtleDude said:
I think those who want the government to do their dirty work are the most legitimate targets of those oppressed by moronic government actions. I don't want cowards who hide behind government agents having any safety
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Your threats and advocacy of murder demonstrates a rejection of the American system and the American people themselves.
 
haymarket said:
Your threats and advocacy of murder demonstrates a rejection of the American system and the American people themselves.
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its not murder to kill those who are raping constitutional rights. ITs defending the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic
 
TurtleDude said:
its not murder to kill those who are raping constitutional rights. ITs defending the constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic
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Actually it is as you do not hold the power or authority to make that determination. By your standards, any delusional mentally unbalanced insane person now has a license to kill if only they disguise their actions as defending their rights.

Some standard you got there Turtle?
 
haymarket said:
Advocating the cold blooded murder of people is not an intellectual argument which helps your cause.
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Oh and I suppose making people defenceless so they can be killed is?
 
haymarket said:
Actually it is as you do not hold the power or authority to make that determination. By your standards, any delusional mentally unbalanced insane person now has a license to kill if only they disguise their actions as defending their rights.

Some standard you got there Turtle?
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Neither do gun grabbers or government hold the authority to disarm anyone.

The fact that insane and unbalanced people are running around is entirely the responsibility of those who are supposed to remove such people from society in order to keep society safe.

You cannot deny that all of them have been diagnosed by incompetent officials. The ridiculous excuse its guns that cause people to do anything is hogwash, impossible and a blatant lie such useless people use to cover up their incompetence.

Only an idiot would fall for such an obvious lie becasue they should know that the insane are not as stupid as gun grabbers and are quite capable of choosing something else to make their statement.

Fix the useless government officials who allow such people to fall though the cracks is the correct response or fire them. You may sensibly advocate as well education of the incompetent idiots who propose gun control as a solution as they are a useless burden on public money.
 
Crimefree said:
Oh and I suppose making people defenceless so they can be killed is?
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whatheheck!?!?!?!?!? You excuse somebody here advocating and supporting the murder of political opponents over a policy issue with the incredibly lame rationale that some extremists on the other side may want to ban weapons? :doh WOW!!!!!!!! :shock::roll:
 
haymarket said:
whatheheck!?!?!?!?!? You excuse somebody here advocating and supporting the murder of political opponents over a policy issue with the incredibly lame rationale that some extremists on the other side may want to ban weapons? :doh WOW!!!!!!!! :shock::roll:
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Was I excusing somebody? can you prove that?

You are shocked by your complicity in advocating people will be safer and will not be killed if they give up their means of protection. Something you cannot prove is valid and is thus a lie. You willing to excuse that to accuse others of the same? :roll::shock:
 
Crimefree said:
Was I excusing somebody? can you prove that?
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sure thing.

Originally Posted by haymarket
Advocating the cold blooded murder of people is not an intellectual argument which helps your cause.
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your reply
Oh and I suppose making people defenceless so they can be killed is?
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you went on the attack with a ridiculous argument trying to deflect from the posters support for murder showing obvious sympathy for your ally on these issues here in these gun threads.

that was too easy. :mrgreen::2wave:
 
haymarket said:
Just who is it that is being "disarmed"?
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Let me help with what you accepted as fact.

The fact that insane and unbalanced people are running around is entirely the responsibility of those who are supposed to remove such people from society in order to keep society safe.

You cannot deny that all of them have been diagnosed by incompetent officials. The ridiculous excuse its guns that cause people to do anything is hogwash, impossible and a blatant lie such useless people use to cover up their incompetence.

Only an idiot would fall for such an obvious lie becasue they should know that the insane are not as stupid as gun grabbers and are quite capable of choosing something else to make their statement.

Fix the useless government officials who allow such people to fall though the cracks is the correct response or fire them. You may sensibly advocate as well education of the incompetent idiots who propose gun control as a solution as they are a useless burden on public money.
 
Crimefree said:
Let me help with what you accepted as fact.

The fact that insane and unbalanced people are running around is entirely the responsibility of those who are supposed to remove such people from society in order to keep society safe.

You cannot deny that all of them have been diagnosed by incompetent officials. The ridiculous excuse its guns that cause people to do anything is hogwash, impossible and a blatant lie such useless people use to cover up their incompetence.

Only an idiot would fall for such an obvious lie becasue they should know that the insane are not as stupid as gun grabbers and are quite capable of choosing something else to make their statement.

Fix the useless government officials who allow such people to fall though the cracks is the correct response or fire them. You may sensibly advocate as well education of the incompetent idiots who propose gun control as a solution as they are a useless burden on public money.
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this is from you

Originally Posted by Crimefree
Neither do gun grabbers or government hold the authority to disarm anyone.
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Still no answer with any verifiable evidence. I ask again:

Originally Posted by haymarket
Just who is it that is being "disarmed"?
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haymarket said:
sure thing.
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Go ahead then don't keep people waiting


your reply

you went on the attack with a ridiculous argument trying to deflect from the posters support for murder showing obvious sympathy for your ally on these issues here in these gun threads.

that was too easy.
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Hey nice emotional argument you must have been practising. I think there was room for a dead baby or two.

Why do you feel persecuted, is it becasue you so justly think you deserve it? It was not and attack I simply wished to show you what a big hypocrite you were. Apparently I failed to penetrate some of the densest material known to man. Is that head bone or bone head?

I'm worried about you congratulating yourself when you fail so abysmally, boosting your ego by making funny claims of what others said. Seeing words that are not there. Not seeing words that are. You seem to enjoy trying to take an ego trip on others. Do they pay you for this as I cannot imagine somebody doing it for free.
 
Crimefree said:
Go ahead then don't keep people waiting
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just did in post #94. You cannot miss it as its right here on this very page.

It was not and attack I simply wished to show you what a big hypocrite you were.
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You presented no evidence of any hypocrisy from me. So yes, it was an attack devoid of any intellectual substance and evidence.
 
haymarket said:
this is from you

Still no answer with any verifiable evidence. I ask again:
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Asked and answered. Whoever you are trying to deny guns. That means each and every person who is denied any firearm for whatever reason you and your ilk dream up. Have you got it now or should I use smaller words?

The verifiable evidences is in your own hands. I need not supply it. You know or what you hate, fear, dislike or wish to deny. It seems to vary from day to day as well First its some rifles you think are ugly, then magazines you think are to big, then some features on some rifles, now it people you think have mental disorders the experts have not removed from society. My best guess is you don't know what you want other than appeasing a fear of guns.
 
haymarket said:
just did in post #94. You cannot miss it as its right here on this very page.

You presented no evidence of any hypocrisy from me. So yes, it was an attack devoid of any intellectual substance and evidence.
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I think I and other will disagree with your biased view based on the evidence of your claims. Your denial is much like a murderer saying innocent never did it. You have not proven your case simply denied it.
 
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