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Gun homicides down dramatically, Americans unaware

Black Dog

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Well it looks like we don't need any new gun laws after all...

TYLER, TX (KLTV) - It seems there is something in the news every day about gun violence. The recent mass shooting in Isla Vista, California, a movie theater riddled with bullets in Colorado, children and teachers gunned down at school in Connecticut, and the list goes on. While you may be seeing more and more shooting, the fact is, overall gun homicide rates have dropped dramatically over the past two decades, according to a recent study. - http://www.kltv.com/story/25635541/gun-homicides-down-dramatically-americans-unaware
 
Well it looks like we don't need any new gun laws after all...

TYLER, TX (KLTV) - It seems there is something in the news every day about gun violence. The recent mass shooting in Isla Vista, California, a movie theater riddled with bullets in Colorado, children and teachers gunned down at school in Connecticut, and the list goes on. While you may be seeing more and more shooting, the fact is, overall gun homicide rates have dropped dramatically over the past two decades, according to a recent study. - Gun homicides down dramatically, Americans unaware - KLTV.com-Tyler, Longview, Jacksonville, Texas | ETX News

yep i used to have saved links on this and they also supported the fact that most crimes are down, including gun crimes, and down a lot but reporting on them as increased like 700%
 
Gun deaths down? Thanks Obama.:doh
 
I still find "gun homicide" an erroneous stat since the key factor is the actual homicide itself and not the arbitrary tool in which it is carried out.

yep i used to have saved links on this and they also supported the fact that most crimes are down, including gun crimes, and down a lot but reporting on them as increased like 700%

A fact that is often ignored when trying to justify certain legislative acts taken by other countries.

Good to hear. Still too many.

I would say one homicide is too many.
 
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Here's another study on gun violence, different perspective: The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010

Conclusions. We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

They also include suicide in those numbers. Provide no source for the data... They just "compiled it" and I see no listing of who the "peers" are that are reviewing it.

No thanks.
 
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You're right! The current level of restriction on guns is just the right amount. None should be repealed. Ever.

Well please point out which ones need to be repealed? I am completely for listening restrictions.
 
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They also include suicide in those numbers. Provide no source for the data... They just "compiled it" and I see no listing of who the "peers" are that are reviewing it. No thanks.
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a) Suicide rate, "by proxy". b) The research done by the American Journal of Public Health on this article is peer reviewed. (see below) c) The AJPH article is reviewed by "ScienceDaily" here.

eZOOqoy.jpg
 
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a) Suicide rate, "by proxy". b) The research done by the American Journal of Public Health on this article is peer reviewed. (see below) c) The AJPH article is reviewed by "ScienceDaily" here.

eZOOqoy.jpg

So because they say the "article" was "peer reviewed" by "Science Daily" means nothing.
 
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So because they say the "article" was "peer reviewed" by "Science Daily" means nothing.
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The image is from my OP (American Journal of Public Health), NOT from the sciencedaily report. You'd know that if you read either.
 
So because they say the "article" was "peer reviewed" by "Science Daily" means nothing.

It's a bunch of idiots who cannot figure out that the states with the highest vehicle ownership have the highest vehicle accident rate. They figure people are to stupid to figure that one out.

WTF is gun homicide and how is it different to knife homicide, bat homicide, axe homicide, stocking homicide, what next water homicide. Is this kind of information even useful? Do bats cause homicide?

It's a cherry picked class to swing statistics in favour of gun control. I do wish firearm owners would stop helping gun control propaganda and their own demise.
 
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The image is from my OP (American Journal of Public Health), NOT from the sciencedaily report. You'd know that if you read either.

I did read it. It was one paragraph stating an opinion, that was about it. No data, stats etc. This is not rocket science.
 
It's a bunch of idiots who cannot figure out that the states with the highest vehicle ownership have the highest vehicle accident rate.

Excellent point.
 
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a) Suicide rate, "by proxy". b) The research done by the American Journal of Public Health on this article is peer reviewed. (see below) c) The AJPH article is reviewed by "ScienceDaily" here.

eZOOqoy.jpg

No wonder the CDC got shut down if this is the kind of rubbish they produced.

The states with the highest number of apple trees have the highest number of apple tree deaths. No rocket scientists there. This shows a causal link between apple trees and apple tree deaths.

Correlation = proof. Trash bin like all gun control research.
 
I did read it. It was one paragraph stating an opinion, that was about it. No data, stats etc. This is not rocket science.
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You have to pay to access the actual AJPH research but it's Summary is conclusive. As it doesn't fit into your pro-gun ideology, you simply reject it...no rocket science there.

I also can't drag you to the ScienceDaily review so I guess I'll have to post it here;


"A new study from the American Journal of Public Heath shows that U.S. states with higher estimated rates of gun ownership experience a higher number of firearms-related homicides.

The study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, examines the National Rifle Association's (NRA) claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to increased gun violence. It is the largest study conducted to date into the correlation between gun ownership and firearms violence, and the first to comprehensively examine the issue since the tragic shooting last December of 20 children and 7 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

The study, covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, found a "robust correlation" between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides. For each 1 percentage point increase in the prevalence of gun ownership, the state firearm homicide rate increases by 0.9 percent, the authors found.

"Understanding the relationship between the prevalence of gun ownership and therefore the availability of guns, and firearm-related mortality is critical to guiding decisions regarding recently proposed measures to address firearm violence," the authors said.

Researchers led by Dr. Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the BU School of Public Health, examined data for the years 1981-2010 on state firearm homicide rates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention's Web-Based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQUARS) database.

State levels of gun ownership were estimated using a well-established proxy variable: the percentage of a state's suicides that are committed with a firearm (FS/S). Because there is no state-level survey that measures household gun ownership, researchers have widely relied upon the FS/S proxy in injury prevention research, and this proxy has been extensively validated in past studies. The proxy correlates highly with survey measures of household firearm ownership, the authors said.

Regression analysis was used to examine the relationship between state levels of gun ownership and firearm homicide rates, while controlling for a range of potential state-level confounding variables, including: age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted non-firearm homicide rate, incarceration rate, and suicide rate.

The regression model predicted that each 1 percentage point increase in gun ownership increases a state's firearm homicide rate by 0.9 percent, translating into a 12.9 percent increase in the gun homicide rate for each one standard deviation increase in gun ownership. All other factors being equal, for example, the model predicts that if the gun ownership estimate for Mississippi were 58 percent (the average for all states), instead of 77 percent (the highest of all states), its firearm homicide rate would be 17 percent lower.

The results of the research are consistent with previous studies that have demonstrated a correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher levels of firearm homicide.

Siegel noted that the study did not determine causation, allowing that it is theoretically possible that people are more likely to purchase guns if they live in states with higher levels of firearm homicide. But he said the issue warrants further study.

"In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, last year, many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates," he said.

The new study is the first cross-sectional analysis to examine data more recent than 1999 and is the most comprehensive to date, both in the number of years studied and the breadth of variables that were controlled for in the analysis.

The study found that over the three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with an average over all states of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate ranged from a low of 0.9 per 100,000 population in New Hampshire to a high of 10.8 per 100,000 in Louisiana over the three decades, with an average for all states of 4 per 100,000. For all states, the average firearm homicide rate decreased from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010."​

If you can find flaws in their research, please point them out.
 
`
You have to pay to access the actual AJPH research but it's Summary is conclusive. As it doesn't fit into your pro-gun ideology, you simply reject it...no rocket science there.

I also can't drag you to the ScienceDaily review so I guess I'll have to post it here;


"A new study from the American Journal of Public Heath shows that U.S. states with higher estimated rates of gun ownership experience a higher number of firearms-related homicides.

The study, led by a Boston University School of Public Health researcher, examines the National Rifle Association's (NRA) claim that increased gun ownership does not lead to increased gun violence. It is the largest study conducted to date into the correlation between gun ownership and firearms violence, and the first to comprehensively examine the issue since the tragic shooting last December of 20 children and 7 adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut.

The study, covering 30 years (1981-2010) in all 50 states, found a "robust correlation" between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides. For each 1 percentage point increase in the prevalence of gun ownership, the state firearm homicide rate increases by 0.9 percent, the authors found.

"Understanding the relationship between the prevalence of gun ownership and therefore the availability of guns, and firearm-related mortality is critical to guiding decisions regarding recently proposed measures to address firearm violence," the authors said.

Researchers led by Dr. Michael Siegel, professor of community health sciences at the BU School of Public Health, examined data for the years 1981-2010 on state firearm homicide rates from the Center for Disease Control and Prevention's Web-Based Injury Statistics Query and Reporting System (WISQUARS) database.

State levels of gun ownership were estimated using a well-established proxy variable: the percentage of a state's suicides that are committed with a firearm (FS/S). Because there is no state-level survey that measures household gun ownership, researchers have widely relied upon the FS/S proxy in injury prevention research, and this proxy has been extensively validated in past studies. The proxy correlates highly with survey measures of household firearm ownership, the authors said.

Regression analysis was used to examine the relationship between state levels of gun ownership and firearm homicide rates, while controlling for a range of potential state-level confounding variables, including: age, gender, race/ethnicity, urbanization, poverty, unemployment, income, education, divorce rate, alcohol use, violent crime rate, nonviolent crime rate, number of hunting licenses, age-adjusted non-firearm homicide rate, incarceration rate, and suicide rate.

The regression model predicted that each 1 percentage point increase in gun ownership increases a state's firearm homicide rate by 0.9 percent, translating into a 12.9 percent increase in the gun homicide rate for each one standard deviation increase in gun ownership. All other factors being equal, for example, the model predicts that if the gun ownership estimate for Mississippi were 58 percent (the average for all states), instead of 77 percent (the highest of all states), its firearm homicide rate would be 17 percent lower.

The results of the research are consistent with previous studies that have demonstrated a correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher levels of firearm homicide.

Siegel noted that the study did not determine causation, allowing that it is theoretically possible that people are more likely to purchase guns if they live in states with higher levels of firearm homicide. But he said the issue warrants further study.

"In the wake of the tragic shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, last year, many states are considering legislation to control firearm-related deaths. This research is the strongest to date to document that states with higher levels of gun ownership have disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides. It suggests that measures which succeed in decreasing the overall prevalence of guns will lower firearm homicide rates," he said.

The new study is the first cross-sectional analysis to examine data more recent than 1999 and is the most comprehensive to date, both in the number of years studied and the breadth of variables that were controlled for in the analysis.

The study found that over the three decades, the mean estimated percentage of gun ownership ranged from a low of 25.8 percent in Hawaii to a high of 76.8 percent in Mississippi, with an average over all states of 57.7 percent.

The mean age-adjusted firearm homicide rate ranged from a low of 0.9 per 100,000 population in New Hampshire to a high of 10.8 per 100,000 in Louisiana over the three decades, with an average for all states of 4 per 100,000. For all states, the average firearm homicide rate decreased from 5.2 per 100,000 in 1981 to 3.5 per 100,000 in 2010."​

If you can find flaws in their research, please point them out.

I don't have a "pro gun" ideology. I do have a pro US Constitution ideology. I did read it, and none of what I said changes...

Couple things are wrong with this...

#1 Wouldn't it be common sense that states with higher gun ownership have a higher rate of gun death?
#2 Suicide is the lions share of those deaths.
#3 Suicide is not illegal in the US.

So not only is it pointless, the data is a waste of time and effort.

Homicide:
Hom·i·cide [hom-uh-sahyd, hoh-muh-] Show IPA
noun
1.the killing of one human being by another.
2.a person who kills another; murderer.
 
a) No wonder the CDC got shut down if this is the kind of rubbish they produced. b) The states with the highest number of apple trees have the highest number of apple tree deaths. No rocket scientists there. This shows a causal link between apple trees and apple tree deaths. Correlation = proof. Trash bin like all gun control research.

a) Pro Tip: American Journal of Public Health is a totally different organization than the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC)

b) So, are you saying that you agree with the research findings, that states with a higher concentration of gun ownership per capita, have disproportionately higher degrees of gun violence and related deaths?

c) Good example of Epistemic Closure.
 
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Here's another study on gun violence, different perspective: The Relationship Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide Rates in the United States, 1981–2010

Conclusions. We observed a robust correlation between higher levels of gun ownership and higher firearm homicide rates. Although we could not determine causation, we found that states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides.

I have seen stats that show firearm deaths decreasing at approx. the same rate as firearm ownership among Progressives/Democrats. Do I believe it shows that as fewer Democrats own firearms, gun crime goes down? No. I do not because there is not enough information in those numbers alone to be taken at face value.

So here is the question, did that study differentiate between legal and illegal ownership or suicide vs murder? For instance, the number of firearms owned is irrelevant. If I own 20 firearms, why would I be more likely to commit suicide or murder? There are way too many variables to correlate gun ownership with abuse of firearms. For the author to ring that “higher firearms ownership shows” bell and then try to un-ring it by saying, "well, we could not show definite causation" in an effort to make it appear scholarly shows a certain bias.

In all seriousness, I could just as easily state that statistics show that if you consume alcoholic beverages in the home, you are more likely to become an alcoholic, drive DUI, commit date rape, beat your spouse, abuse your children or commit suicide. The numbers would absolutely validate that statement. In both cases (alcohol and firearms) other risk factors have to be present to make those numbers relevant.

In reality, the risk factors leading to higher firearm homicide rates are only present in less than 1% of 60,000,000 legal firearms owners but 100% of criminals and suicide victims.
 
Here's a flaw, there are more guns in circulation yet gun homicides are still going down.
Not quite. The number of households owning guns has been slowly dropping since the 1970s.

gun+graph+top.jpg
 
I have seen stats that show firearm deaths decreasing at approx. the same rate as firearm ownership among Progressives/Democrats. Do I believe it shows that as fewer Democrats own firearms, gun crime goes down? No. I do not because there is not enough information in those numbers alone to be taken at face value. So here is the question, did that study differentiate between legal and illegal ownership or suicide vs murder? For instance, the number of firearms owned is irrelevant. If I own 20 firearms, why would I be more likely to commit suicide or murder? There are way too many variables to correlate gun ownership with abuse of firearms. For the author to ring that “higher firearms ownership shows” bell and then try to un-ring it by saying, "well, we could not show definite causation" in an effort to make it appear scholarly shows a certain bias. In all seriousness, I could just as easily state that statistics show that if you consume alcoholic beverages in the home, you are more likely to become an alcoholic, drive DUI, commit date rape, beat your spouse, abuse your children or commit suicide. The numbers would absolutely validate that statement. In both cases (alcohol and firearms) other risk factors have to be present to make those numbers relevant. In reality, the risk factors leading to higher firearm homicide rates are only present in less than 1% of 60,000,000 legal firearms owners but 100% of criminals and suicide victims.
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I agree, more in-depth research is needed which is why I support additional funding for the CDC to do this.
 
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I agree, more in-depth research is needed which is why I support additional funding for the CDC to do this.

The only thing that will lead to is more government action. Not interested.
 
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