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Chicago’s newly armed residents send murder rate plummeting

cpwill

cpwill

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How very astonishing :roll:

Murders in the Windy City have plummeted since the Illinois legislature enacted its concealed weapon carry law, and the state Supreme Court upheld a person’s right to carry firearms outside the home.The Chicago Police Department posted the city’s 2014 first quarter crime figures Tuesday, indicating the lowest number of homicides since 1958, according to local ABC affiliate Eyewitness 7 News, which reported:
The first three months of the year saw 6 fewer murders than the same time frame in 2013–a 9 percent drop–and 55 fewer murders than 2012, according to a statement from Chicago Police.
There were 90 fewer shootings and 119 fewer shooting victims, drops of 26 and 29 percent respectively, according to police statistics. Compared to the first quarter of 2012, there have been 222 fewer shootings and 292 fewer shooting victims.
​
So what’s changed that could possibly account for such a dramatic fall in a city that was fast becoming known for its homicide rates — especially in its notorious South Side neighborhoods?
In July, the Illinois legislature overrode Democratic Gov. Pat Quinn’s veto to make The Land of Lincoln the final state in the country to have a concealed firearm carry permit law....
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Good for Chicago. I hope it is a trend that we see continuing.
 
cpwill said:
How very astonishing :roll:

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I'd be careful at jumping to conclusions, there's no information on the circumstances of each murder nor any information on any any potential murders were stopped by a privately owned firearm. And there's no other information on what other things may have occurred to drop the murder rate. Also 2012 was a oddball year in the decade's trend

2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 516
2013: 415

Crime in Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see it sticks out with nearly a hundred more than the years around it, so comparing that to other years is being deliberately deceptive as its not indicative of a trend. And as you can see for 2013, where the law was overturned in July 2013, had a similar number as the past several years except for, again, 2012. Lastly since we only have three months of data for 2014 its not enough to say for certain that Chicago is on a downward trend.


I rate the claim that the overturning of the conceal carry ban on Chicago has had a significant impact on the murder rate as....

Inconclusive pretending further data
 
Wiseone said:
I'd be careful at jumping to conclusions, there's no information on the circumstances of each murder nor any information on any any potential murders were stopped by a privately owned firearm. And there's no other information on what other things may have occurred to drop the murder rate. Also 2012 was a oddball year in the decade's trend

2000: 633
2001: 667
2002: 656
2003: 601
2004: 453
2005: 451
2006: 471
2007: 448
2008: 513
2009: 459
2010: 436
2011: 435
2012: 516
2013: 415

Crime in Chicago - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As you can see it sticks out with nearly a hundred more than the years around it, so comparing that to other years is being deliberately deceptive as its not indicative of a trend. And as you can see for 2013, where the law was overturned in July 2013, had a similar number as the past several years except for, again, 2012. Lastly since we only have three months of data for 2014 its not enough to say for certain that Chicago is on a downward trend.


I rate the claim that the overturning of the conceal carry ban on Chicago has had a significant impact on the murder rate as....

Inconclusive pretending further data
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Buzzkill.

(The first permits were just mailed out the end of February. You may be right.)
 
Its about time

cities or states that don't allow citizens to carry weapons should not be allowed to arm their employees
 
Most states that instituted concealed carry permits either experience a slight decrease in violent crime, or no significant change.


The point being it NEVER leads to the "bloodbath in the streets" that detractors always predict... of course Chicago and Detroit are already bloodbaths, so who would notice...
 
Goshin said:
Most states that instituted concealed carry permits either experience a slight decrease in violent crime, or no significant change.


The point being it NEVER leads to the "bloodbath in the streets" that detractors always predict... of course Chicago and Detroit are already bloodbaths, so who would notice...
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the anti gun assholes claim that since the CCW permits don't cause SIGNIFICANT decreases in crime, CCW shouldn't be allowed.

when you ask them why not you get evasion stupidity and dishonesty

and you ask them what the down side is-and you get the same

its sort of like the nonsense we saw here a couple months ago over people carrying more than 7 rounds in their defensive weapons

no harm

but there is always the chance you might need more

I didn't expect to get mugged the night I had to shoot someone (If I was actually expecting to be mugged I would have stayed in my apartment or gone out carrying the 8 shot 12 G Ithaca Pump Gun I kept in my bedroom
 
TurtleDude said:
the anti gun assholes claim that since the CCW permits don't cause SIGNIFICANT decreases in crime, CCW shouldn't be allowed.
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Reminds me of the starfish story: "It makes a difference to this one..."
 
TurtleDude said:
the anti gun assholes claim that since the CCW permits don't cause SIGNIFICANT decreases in crime, CCW shouldn't be allowed.

when you ask them why not you get evasion stupidity and dishonesty

and you ask them what the down side is-and you get the same

its sort of like the nonsense we saw here a couple months ago over people carrying more than 7 rounds in their defensive weapons

no harm

but there is always the chance you might need more

I didn't expect to get mugged the night I had to shoot someone (If I was actually expecting to be mugged I would have stayed in my apartment or gone out carrying the 8 shot 12 G Ithaca Pump Gun I kept in my bedroom
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Everything in this post is a straw man
 
Wiseone said:
Everything in this post is a straw man
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I figured you'd be here trying to pretend CCW is a bad thing.

and its not a straw man. its 100% accurate and responsive to Goshin's post

maybe you ought to let Goshin decide if my POST TO HIM was a straw man.

Look-we get the fact that you don't like people owning guns

we get the fact that you think most gun owners shouldn't own guns and have no valid reason in YOUR MIND to own guns

we get the fact that you don't like the politics of those of us who oppose gun control laws that are designed to harass us

and we get the fact that you will spew attacks on pro gun posts based on standards you never ever apply to anti gun posts
 
TurtleDude said:
I figured you'd be here trying to pretend CCW is a bad thing.

and its not a straw man. its 100% accurate and responsive to Goshin's post

maybe you ought to let Goshin decide if my POST TO HIM was a straw man.

Look-we get the fact that you don't like people owning guns

we get the fact that you think most gun owners shouldn't own guns and have no valid reason in YOUR MIND to own guns

we get the fact that you don't like the politics of those of us who oppose gun control laws that are designed to harass us

and we get the fact that you will spew attacks on pro gun posts based on standards you never ever apply to anti gun posts
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I bolded all the straw man arguments
 
Wiseone said:
I bolded all the straw man arguments
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your opinion is rejected based on our own posts

and I stand by what I said about your positions
 
Wiseone said:
No one, especially me, is saying anything that you are arguing against.
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you aren't making sense. what exactly was your purpose of being on this thread?

are you mad that Chicago finally joined the 21st century-albeit after the courts gave it a 2A enema?

or are you mad that your beloved Democrat politicians were getting their asses kicked by the courts and the NRA?

or is it that you are mad that us pro rights advocates are happy that chicago was forced to allow the peasants the same weapons that the elites like RahmButt carry?
 
TurtleDude said:
you aren't making sense. what exactly was your purpose of being on this thread?

are you mad that Chicago finally joined the 21st century-albeit after the courts gave it a 2A enema?

or are you mad that your beloved Democrat politicians were getting their asses kicked by the courts and the NRA?

or is it that you are mad that us pro rights advocates are happy that chicago was forced to allow the peasants the same weapons that the elites like RahmButt carry?
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So angry
 
Looks like the first permits didn't get mailed out until Friday February 28, 2014.

....Illinois State Police announced Friday they have begun mailing the first state concealed-carry licenses for approved applicants. They have 5,000 licenses printed and ready to go, the first trickle in a deluge of applications expected to approach 400,000 this year alone....
Illinois officials send out state's first concealed-carry gun permits : News
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Remember, we had a especially brutal winter here.

And if we have a cold and rainy spring.......



Ah never mind, I hate to rain on your parade.

:peace
 
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Yes, because two wrongs always make a right .
TurtleDude said:
Its about time

cities or states that don't allow citizens to carry weapons should not be allowed to arm their employees
Click to expand...
 
TurtleDude said:
the anti gun assholes claim that since the CCW permits don't cause SIGNIFICANT decreases in crime,
CCW shouldn't be allowed.
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I've never heard an anti-gun asshole as myself say such a ridiculous thing.
It is true we anti gun assholes believe gun assholes should register their weapons.

But gun assholes believe anti gun assholes want to confiscate their weapons.
So there you have it--assholes on each side who will never agree .
 
NIMBY said:
Yes, because two wrongs always make a right .
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that has nothing to do with it

if the servants of the people don't trust their masters to be armed, they shouldn't be armed either

and I want politicians to be just as vulnerable to criminal attack as those of us who pay their bills. If they don't want US being able to protect ourselves from criminals, I sure as hell want them to feel the same fear as say some single mother living in the projects who cannot afford to pay for the expensive licenses liberals want her to pay to own a defensive handgun
 
NIMBY said:
I've never heard an anti-gun asshole as myself say such a ridiculous thing.
It is true we anti gun assholes believe gun assholes should register their weapons.

But gun assholes believe anti gun assholes want to confiscate their weapons.
So there you have it--assholes on each side who will never agree .
Click to expand...

nothing brands someone idiotic on the gun issue faster than wanting registration
 
TurtleDude said:
that has nothing to do with it

if the servants of the people don't trust their masters to be armed, they shouldn't be armed either
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Who is to make this determination on trust.
One person, two, four, eight, etc.
How is trust defined in the actions of the government, the person, the RW collective?
We end up here every time.
Are we to have over 300 million citizen countries with their own force fields around their property and themselves ? :mrgreen:
 
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