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Unarmed victim

Ikari said:
But neither is rear ending a motorcyclist then running over more motorcyclists to flee the scene.
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The SUV didn't "rear end" the motorcycle.

The motorcycle got in front of the SUV and brake checked the guy on a wide open, 55MPH span of the Henry Hudson Pkwy.

The SUV tried to stop but couldn't, because you know, the motorcycle slammed on his brakes dead in front of the guy and the 800 lb. motorcycle slowed down from speed a lot more quickly than the 5000 lb SUV. Who would have thought?

Then a bunch of other motorcycle punks laid their bikes down on their sides and swarmed the SUV.

So the SUV driver, with his four-year-old daughter and wife in the car, got the **** out of Dodge the only way he could - over the motorcycles that were stopped, and laid down in front of him, on the highway.

There's video all over the Interwebs of these packs (I won't call them gangs because by and large they weren't) of idiots tooling all over the city all weekend weaving in and out of traffic, driving on the shoulders and sidewalk, driving against traffic, putting out road guards to block traffic and run red lights to stay in their little groups. And there's video of them doing similar things (as they did to this SUV driver) to other motorists and not having their punk card pulled because other people were able to stop in time and/or back down from their clearly aggressive and dangerous bull****.

No.

What happened here is that a gaggle of retards played ***** and ended up getting ****ed.
 
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CRUE CAB said:
Actually, there are recreational bikers, Bike Week wanna be, wallet jobbers, daily riders, 1%ers and stunters.
Rec bikers just hang on the weekend and bar hop and such.
Bike week bikers are salesmen, lawyers and the like that dont shave for week before Daytona or Sturgis. Usually tow the bike.
Wallet Jobbers ride but dont know the first thing about the mechanical side. They pay people to build and maintain thier bikes.
Daily guys are the ones on 10 year old Goldwings heading into work.
1%ers, Hells Angles, Gypsy Jokers, Warlocks and the like that operate on the fringe of society.
And stunters. The guys that do wheelies in traffic and stoppie/enders at the lights.
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Yeah, those types fit into the description I gave. I would say yours is a bit more specific than mine but the personalities are the same. People either ride for the love of it, or the image of it.
 
As it stands now, Mr. Range Rover is in the right. Had he pulled out a gun, he'd be in the next cell over. You're supposed to protect yourself with the least amount of force. He left the scene hitting nobody but the ones blocking him.
 
specklebang said:
As it stands now, Mr. Range Rover is in the right. Had he pulled out a gun, he'd be in the next cell over. You're supposed to protect yourself with the least amount of force. He left the scene hitting nobody but the ones blocking him.
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And was later rushed to the emergency room after being beaten and slashed by an angry mob once they were able to run him down and corner him in traffic.

So, yeah...
 
Black Manta said:
No the motorcycles surrounded the SUV and started blocking him in. Now we don't know how it started because something obviously happened before hand.

After the initial accident however the bikers where in the wrong period. Good thing it was not me, I would have shot at them until they decided to stop.
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There are a lot of motorcycles on the road during motorcycle events. Being surrounded by motorcycles isn't excuse to use your car as a weapon and plow through them.
 
specklebang said:
As it stands now, Mr. Range Rover is in the right. Had he pulled out a gun, he'd be in the next cell over. You're supposed to protect yourself with the least amount of force. He left the scene hitting nobody but the ones blocking him.
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And people trying to help the injured motorcyclist.
 
soot said:
The SUV didn't "rear end" the motorcycle.

The motorcycle got in front of the SUV and brake checked the guy on a wide open, 55MPH span of the Henry Hudson Pkwy.

The SUV tried to stop but couldn't, because you know, the motorcycle slammed on his brakes dead in front of the guy and the 800 lb. motorcycle slowed down from speed a lot more quickly than the 5000 lb SUV. Who would have thought?

Then a bunch of other motorcycle punks laid their bikes down on their sides and swarmed the SUV.

So the SUV driver, with his four-year-old daughter and wife in the car, got the **** out of Dodge the only way he could - over the motorcycles that were stopped, and laid down in front of him, on the highway.

There's video all over the Interwebs of these packs (I won't call them gangs because by and large they weren't) of idiots tooling all over the city all weekend weaving in and out of traffic, driving on the shoulders and sidewalk, driving against traffic, putting out road guards to block traffic and run red lights to stay in their little groups. And there's video of them doing similar things (as they did to this SUV driver) to other motorists and not having their punk card pulled because other people were able to stop in time and/or back down from their clearly aggressive and dangerous bull****.

No.

What happened here is that a gaggle of retards played ***** and ended up getting ****ed.
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Motorcyclist didn't slam on his brakes, if you watch the video you'll see his break lights don't come on.
 
specklebang said:
As it stands now, Mr. Range Rover is in the right. Had he pulled out a gun, he'd be in the next cell over. You're supposed to protect yourself with the least amount of force. He left the scene hitting nobody but the ones blocking him.
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At the point they started smashing his windows out. I was expecting to see gun fire from within the Rover.
I know down here, it would almost be certian.
 
Ikari said:
Motorcyclist didn't slam on his brakes, if you watch the video you'll see his break lights don't come on.
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And you know his brake lights work just fine. It looked like a rolling POS, so smashed out lites from trying circle wheelies would not surprise me at all.
 
Ikari said:
Motorcyclist didn't slam on his brakes, if you watch the video you'll see his break lights don't come on.
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Maybe he had a broken tail light.

If you watch the video it's clear that things go from folks driving fast, to folks driving less fast, to folks being at a dead stop in a very short span of time and that the motorcycle precipitated the slowing.

If you don't see the brake check, you need to contact the W3C to let them know your Internet is broken, because everyone else in the civilized world sees it.
 
Ikari said:
There are a lot of motorcycles on the road during motorcycle events. Being surrounded by motorcycles isn't excuse to use your car as a weapon and plow through them.
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I agree. However in the video they were messing with him. The bike in front of him had no reason to brake in front of him like that. I will also add we still don't know what happened prior to the video.
 
Black Manta said:
I agree. However in the video they were messing with him. The bike in front of him had no reason to brake in front of him like that. I will also add we still don't know what happened prior to the video.
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He didn't brake. He slowed down, but even then you don't know by how much because the video is taken from a moving reference frame.
 
CRUE CAB said:
And you know his brake lights work just fine. It looked like a rolling POS, so smashed out lites from trying circle wheelies would not surprise me at all.
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That's assumption and supposition, not fact. Not fact is not enough to condemn a man.
 
Ikari said:
That's assumption and supposition, not fact. Not fact is not enough to condemn a man.
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From enough years on the seat, I have seen it. He put himself in that position. I have no sympathy.
 
Ikari said:
He didn't brake. He slowed down, but even then you don't know by how much because the video is taken from a moving reference frame.
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No. The bikers said "we were just trying to get him to slow down and not drive close to us." - 1 biker charged, another critical in NYC Range Rover chase - U.S. News

So they did it on purpose. I used to ride and I would not try and force a car to slow down or anything else. It was reckless and stupid. It puts them at fault.

Not to mention the guy had his family in the car. I assume he was scared ****less. He obviously had reason to fear for his safety.
 
soot said:
And was later rushed to the emergency room after being beaten and slashed by an angry mob once they were able to run him down and corner him in traffic.

So, yeah...
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Ikari said:
And people trying to help the injured motorcyclist.
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I can't tell if you two are agreeing or disagreeing with me? Maybe if you'll invest 2 or more sentences, I'll understand.
 
specklebang said:
I can't tell if you two are agreeing or disagreeing with me? Maybe if you'll invest 2 or more sentences, I'll understand.
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For my part, I'm neither really agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

I do agree that even when using deadly force it's only appropriate to use the least amount of force necessary to extricate yourself (and any you would be protecting/defending) from the perceived threat of imminent harm.

But I wonder if maybe a little more force on Mr. Range Rover's part upon his forst run in with this rabid mob might have prevented them from chasing him down until they had him in a situation where he could no longer run?

If he had shot someone in the face as he fled from the initial scene, and I believe that he would have been within his rights (to defend himself) if he had done so, would that have dissuaded the group from following him and later being able to corner him, smash in his windows with their helmets, drag him physically from his vehicle, and beat him and slash him with a knife?

Was he "lucky" that they didn't treat his wife and small child in the same manner?

Of course there's always the possibility, since assuming that legally carrying a firearm were an option in NYC, that one or more, potentially dozens, of the motorcycle mob might also have been legally carrying. If he had opened fire on them, would they not be within their rights to return fire? If such a shootout had commenced is it not possible that Mr. Range Rover could have killed innocent by-standers? Or that the motorcycle thugs could have killed him and his entire family, and a bunch of other by-standers to boot?

In conclusion, I don't think it's as clear cut as "good thing the guy didn't have a gun", but neither would I say conclusively that if he had had a gun things clearly would have worked out in a manner much more to the law-abiding-citizen's favor.
 
soot said:
For my part, I'm neither really agreeing nor disagreeing with you.

I do agree that even when using deadly force it's only appropriate to use the least amount of force necessary to extricate yourself (and any you would be protecting/defending) from the perceived threat of imminent harm.

But I wonder if maybe a little more force on Mr. Range Rover's part upon his forst run in with this rabid mob might have prevented them from chasing him down until they had him in a situation where he could no longer run?

If he had shot someone in the face as he fled from the initial scene, and I believe that he would have been within his rights (to defend himself) if he had done so, would that have dissuaded the group from following him and later being able to corner him, smash in his windows with their helmets, drag him physically from his vehicle, and beat him and slash him with a knife?

Was he "lucky" that they didn't treat his wife and small child in the same manner?

Of course there's always the possibility, since assuming that legally carrying a firearm were an option in NYC, that one or more, potentially dozens, of the motorcycle mob might also have been legally carrying. If he had opened fire on them, would they not be within their rights to return fire? If such a shootout had commenced is it not possible that Mr. Range Rover could have killed innocent by-standers? Or that the motorcycle thugs could have killed him and his entire family, and a bunch of other by-standers to boot?

In conclusion, I don't think it's as clear cut as "good thing the guy didn't have a gun", but neither would I say conclusively that if he had had a gun things clearly would have worked out in a manner much more to the law-abiding-citizen's favor.
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You can't be serious. Had Mr. RR opened fire, he would be facing prison and civil actions (he has an RR - deep pockets). He did the correct thing and thats why he's being treated as a hero instead of a killer. If you think I'm wrong, ask Mr. Zimmerman - found innocent after losing his wife and a fortune in legal bills not to mention spending a few days in the slammer.

Guns are good - when there are no other options. A Range Rover weighs 3,960 pounds with no passengers.
 
specklebang said:
You can't be serious. Had Mr. RR opened fire, he would be facing prison and civil actions (he has an RR - deep pockets). He did the correct thing and thats why he's being treated as a hero instead of a killer. If you think I'm wrong, ask Mr. Zimmerman - found innocent after losing his wife and a fortune in legal bills not to mention spending a few days in the slammer.

Guns are good - when there are no other options. A Range Rover weighs 3,960 pounds with no passengers.
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I agree with that. I would have just drove to a local police station. However after he was cornered, it would have been open season on bikers. No way I would let them do that with my family in the car.
 
Black Manta said:
I agree with that. I would have just drove to a local police station. However after he was cornered, it would have been open season on bikers. No way I would let them do that with my family in the car.
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Damn straight.

Want to ride on and live? Don't make me think you're a threat to my family. Real simple.
 
like i said in the other thread from what i can see the bikers got off easy, really easy. THe biker was not rammed that was his own doing.

also as far as gun talk that would have been bad and i cant say i would condone any of that unless i could see it though the eyes of the driver. Lots of people that could of had guns and shot back lots of changes to hit an innocent.

Where i would have shot though is at the end when he was beating in the window. That guy is trying to gain entry by violent force and with my wife and kid in the car i would have shot that guy dead.

Now in NY guns are an issue and i dont know if law would have been on my side there but in other places it would.
 
Goshin said:
Damn straight.

Want to ride on and live? Don't make me think you're a threat to my family. Real simple.
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ding ding ding ding
winner winner chicken dinner

i agree
 
AGENT J said:
like i said in the other thread from what i can see the bikers got off easy, really easy. THe biker was not rammed that was his own doing.

also as far as gun talk that would have been bad and i cant say i would condone any of that unless i could see it though the eyes of the driver. Lots of people that could of had guns and shot back lots of changes to hit an innocent.

Where i would have shot though is at the end when he was beating in the window. That guy is trying to gain entry by violent force and with my wife and kid in the car i would have shot that guy dead.

Now in NY guns are an issue and i dont know if law would have been on my side there but in other places it would.
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Absolutely. As long as the car is moving and they are not shooting at me. A motorcycle is not a threat. Like I said drive to the local PD. After they trapped him and started bashing the window in. It's time to defend yourself and family. Gun laws be damned.
 
specklebang said:
I can't tell if you two are agreeing or disagreeing with me? Maybe if you'll invest 2 or more sentences, I'll understand.
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The guy who was paralyzed was trying to aid the first fallen motorcyclist when he was run over by the SUV, not attempting to block the SUV in.
 
Black Manta said:
Absolutely. As long as the car is moving and they are not shooting at me. A motorcycle is not a threat. Like I said drive to the local PD. After they trapped him and started bashing the window in. It's time to defend yourself and family. Gun laws be damned.
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yep
this is exactly what SYG laws are made for even if NY is backwards on self defense right now
 
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