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Poll: Obama approval rises, as does public support for gun control

TurtleDude said:
every post of yours establishes that your support of gun restrictions is designed to hassle legal gun owners
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Every post of yours establishes a new attempt to divert from the fact you can't refute the OP! :lamo
 
Catawba said:
Every post of yours establishes a new attempt to divert from the fact you can't refute the OP! :lamo
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it is meaningless-you labor under the delusion that ephemeral popular opinion of low IQ LIVs matters when it comes to constitutional rights
 
TurtleDude said:
it is meaningless-you labor under the delusion that ephemeral popular opinion of low IQ LIVs matters when it comes to constitutional rights
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If you think its meaningless, and you can't refute it, why are you here on this thread?
 
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Catawba said:
If you think its meaningless, and you can't refute it, why are here on this thread?
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I like to use your silly anti gun comments to educate people with open minds about what motivates anti gun posters such as you. It has nothing to do with public safety
 
TurtleDude said:
I like to use your silly anti gun comments to educate people with open minds about what motivates anti gun posters such as you. It has nothing to do with public safety
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Derogatory comments about me do nothing to refute the OP but do show your reason for posting here.
 
Catawba said:
Derogatory comments about me do nothing to refute the OP but do show your reason for posting here.
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yeah I am here to show how dishonest the anti gun advocates are.

and your posts prove my point. Your rant about guns because gun owners aren't far lefties for the most part
 
TurtleDude said:
it is meaningless-you labor under the delusion that ephemeral popular opinion of low IQ LIVs matters when it comes to constitutional rights
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*Do low IQ voters vote, can they change the make up of the house and senate? Not that I want it to be but can the second amendment be amended?

*Ridiculous question if you think about how many potential republican voters thought that President Obama had some how ran for President and was not born in America.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah I am here to show how dishonest the anti gun advocates are.

and your posts prove my point. Your rant about guns because gun owners aren't far lefties for the most part
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Just more derogatory comments with nothing to refute the OP!
 
dnsmith said:
Correct they were shot with a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle. BUT THAT IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE. THAT WAS THE POINT. So if they ban real assault rifles that firearm will not be banned.

So maybe you should learn what a real assault weapon is?
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I'll wait until you educate the Connecticut state detective who is leading the investigation into this horrific crime who says all 26 people murdered were killed with an "assault weapon."

The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon" ~ Lead investigator, Lt. Paul Vance, Connecticut state police
 
TurtleDude said:
That's why its so hard to take the rants of anti gun lefties seriously. They don't even understand the terms
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The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon" ~ Lead investigator, Lt. Paul Vance, Connecticut state police

Let's see you prove:

  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is "anti gun"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is a "lefty"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance doesn't "understand the terms"
 
TurtleDude said:
who cares-that has no relevance to gun rights. and have you established that his popularity has risen becuase he wants to violate the second amendment

what is funny is all the obama toadies who bashed me and a few others who said that if Obama wins one of the first things he would try to do is attack gun owners

looks like I was right and the obama toadies were liars
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"who cares" = :surrender
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon" ~ Lead investigator, Lt. Paul Vance, Connecticut state police

Let's see you prove:

  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is "anti gun"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is a "lefty"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance doesn't "understand the terms"
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the weapon complied with CT's ban on "assault weapons"

draw whatever you want from that conclusion
 
TurtleDude said:
the weapon complied with CT's ban on "assault weapons"

draw whatever you want from that conclusion
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Well that was a rather non-responsive reply. :confused:

Again, the lead investigator, in his own words, said it was an "assault weapon."

You said, "That's why its so hard to take the rants of anti gun lefties seriously. They don't even understand the terms"

So I'm challenging you to prove:

  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is "anti gun"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is a "lefty"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance doesn't "understand the terms"

The lead investigator disagrees with you. Why on Earth would I take your word over his??
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Well that was a rather non-responsive reply. :confused:

Again, the lead investigator, in his own words, said it was an "assault weapon."

You said, "That's why its so hard to take the rants of anti gun lefties seriously. They don't even understand the terms"

So I'm challenging you to prove:

  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is "anti gun"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is a "lefty"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance doesn't "understand the terms"

The lead investigator disagrees with you. Why on Earth would I take your word over his??
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I can only tell you what the facts are and that you seem to offer a man whose comments are contrary to known fact and known law as a champion of your anti gun cause.

You should take my word because I have facts

Assault rifle is a term that involves select fire weapons-the weapon in CT was not a select fire and thus not an assault rifle

the term assault weapon is a vague term-in 1994 it meant (for rifles) a semi auto that accepted a detachable magazine with two other cosmetic features such as a pistol grip, a folding or collapsing stock, a flash hider, a bayonet mount etc. The current proposed definition now merely requires one. CT has an AWB so it appears the weapon in question did not meet the CT test at the time it was used.

And yes many cops don't have a good working knowledge of the precise terms. As an attorney who represented dealers and Title II makers I believe I know far more about this issue than some investigator whose expertise is crime scene investigations-not small arms
 
TurtleDude said:
I can only tell you what the facts are and that you seem to offer a man whose comments are contrary to known fact and known law as a champion of your anti gun cause.

You should take my word because I have facts

Assault rifle is a term that involves select fire weapons-the weapon in CT was not a select fire and thus not an assault rifle

the term assault weapon is a vague term-in 1994 it meant (for rifles) a semi auto that accepted a detachable magazine with two other cosmetic features such as a pistol grip, a folding or collapsing stock, a flash hider, a bayonet mount etc. The current proposed definition now merely requires one. CT has an AWB so it appears the weapon in question did not meet the CT test at the time it was used.

And yes many cops don't have a good working knowledge of the precise terms. As an attorney who represented dealers and Title II makers I believe I know far more about this issue than some investigator whose expertise is crime scene investigations-not small arms
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Unfortunately for you, you have never even seen the actual assault weapon used.

Lt. Vance has.

So while you are in no position to represent any "facts," while he is, I can only hope you can appreciate the enormous disadvantage you have to Lt. Vance, the lead investigator in the case. Though based on past experience, my guess is that you will continue to ignore that and continue to bloviate about facts you don't actually have.
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
Unfortunately for you, you have never even seen the actual assault weapon used.

Lt. Vance has.

So while you are in no position to represent any "facts," while he is, I can only hope you can appreciate the enormous disadvantage you have to Lt. Vance, the lead investigator in the case. Though based on past experience, my guess is that you will continue to ignore that and continue to bloviate about facts you don't actually have.
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really? and you know this how? YOu are just making crap up. I was a prosecutor for years, I was involved in a shooting, and I have over a HALF MILLION rounds of experience. And I have accurately defined what the relative terms mean. The gun I used to defend myself carried a normal capacity magazine more than the ten rounds people like you currently want to limit honest people to

I also have represented the USA as a shooter and have defended LEOs involved in shootings

wanna try again-

stick to saying what you know rather than what you want the facts to be
 
Sheik Yerbuti said:
The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon" ~ Lead investigator, Lt. Paul Vance, Connecticut state police

Let's see you prove:

  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is "anti gun"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance is a "lefty"
  • Lead investigator Lt. Vance doesn't "understand the terms"
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The Bushmaster .223 rifle is not an assault rifle. It does not fire more than one round per trigger pull. If you want to try to ban the The Bushmaster .223 rifle that is your prerogative, but IT IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE, even if Lt Vance mistakenly believes it is.
 
Thousands march in Washington for gun control

WASHINGTON -- "Thousands of people, many holding signs with names of gun violence victims and messages such as "Ban Assault Weapons Now," joined a rally for gun control Saturday, marching from the Capitol to the Washington Monument.

Leading the crowd were marchers with "We Are Sandy Hook" signs, paying tribute to victims of the December school shooting in Newtown, Conn. Washington Mayor Vincent Gray and other city officials marched alongside them. The crowd stretched for at least two blocks along Constitution Avenue."

"Lawmakers from the District of Columbia and Maryland rallied the crowd, along with Marian Wright Edelman of the Children's Defense Fund and Colin Goddard, a survivor from the Virginia Tech massacre.

Goddard said he was shot four times at Virginia Tech and is motivated to keep fighting for gun control because what happened to him keeps happening -- and that nothing's been done to stop it.

"We are Americans," he said, drawing big cheers. "We have overcome difficulties when we realize we are better than this."

Thousands march in Washington for gun control  - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports -
 
Catawba said:
Thousands march in Washington for gun control

WASHINGTON -- "Thousands of people, many holding signs with names of gun violence victims and messages such as "Ban Assault Weapons Now," joined a rally for gun control Saturday, marching from the Capitol to the Washington Monument.

Leading the crowd were marchers with "We Are Sandy Hook" signs, paying tribute to victims of the December school shooting in Newtown, Conn. Washington Mayor Vincent Gray and other city officials marched alongside them. The crowd stretched for at least two blocks along Constitution Avenue."

"Lawmakers from the District of Columbia and Maryland rallied the crowd, along with Marian Wright Edelman of the Children's Defense Fund and Colin Goddard, a survivor from the Virginia Tech massacre.

Goddard said he was shot four times at Virginia Tech and is motivated to keep fighting for gun control because what happened to him keeps happening -- and that nothing's been done to stop it.

"We are Americans," he said, drawing big cheers. "We have overcome difficulties when we realize we are better than this."

Thousands march in Washington for gun control* - News - The Charleston Gazette - West Virginia News and Sports -
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I can assure you that if gun control becomes draconian bigger crowds will march on Washington and likely will be carrying some of the firearms the gun control nuts want to ban.
 
dnsmith said:
I can assure you that if gun control becomes draconian bigger crowds will march on Washington and likely will be carrying some of the firearms the gun control nuts want to ban.
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Riiiiiiight! Just like they did in 1994! :cool:
 
TurtleDude said:
really? and you know this how? YOu are just making crap up. I was a prosecutor for years, I was involved in a shooting, and I have over a HALF MILLION rounds of experience. And I have accurately defined what the relative terms mean. The gun I used to defend myself carried a normal capacity magazine more than the ten rounds people like you currently want to limit honest people to

I also have represented the USA as a shooter and have defended LEOs involved in shootings

wanna try again-

stick to saying what you know rather than what you want the facts to be
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I know this because you haven't seen the weapon used. It ends there. You have no idea what accessories were on the assault weapon used. Lt. Vance does know and he called it an "aasault weapon."

Here's the legal definition, which according to the lead investigator in the case, fits the description of the assault weapon used:

ASSAULT WEAPON

"Assault weapon" means any one of the following:

  1. Any selective-fire firearm capable of fully automatic, semiautomatic or burst fire at the option of the user or any of the following specified semiautomatic firearms: Algimec Agmi; Armalite AR-180; Australian Automatic Arms SAP Pistol; Auto-Ordnance Thompson type; Avtomat Kalashnikov AK-47 type; Barrett Light-Fifty model 82A1; Beretta AR-70; Bushmaster Auto Rifle and Auto Pistol; Calico models M-900, M-950 and 100-P; Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88; Colt AR-15 and Sporter; Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max-1 and Max-2; Encom MK-IV, MP-9 and MP-45; Fabrique Nationale FN/FAL, FN/LAR, or FN/FNC; FAMAS MAS 223; Feather AT-9 and Mini-AT; Federal XC-900 and XC-450; Franchi SPAS-12 and LAW-12; Galil AR and ARM; Goncz High-Tech Carbine and High-Tech Long Pistol; Heckler & Koch HK-91, HK-93, HK-94 and SP-89; Holmes MP-83; MAC-10, MAC-11 Carbien type; Intratec TEC-9 and Scorpion; Iver Johnson Enforcer model 3000; Ruger Mini-14/5F folding stock model only; Scarab Skorpion; SIG 57 AMT and 500 Series; Spectre Auto Carbine and Auto Pistol; Springfield Armory BM59, SAR-48 and G-3; Sterling MK-6 and MK-7; Steyr AUG; Street Sweeper and Striker 12 revolving cylinder shotguns; USAS-12; USI Carbine, Mini-Carbine and Pistol; Weaver Arms Nighthawk; Wilkinson "Linda" Pistol.

  2. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (1) or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon as defined in subdivision (1) may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

  3. Any semiautomatic firearm not listed in subdivision (1) that meets the following criteria:

    (A) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
    • a folding or telescopic stock;

    • a pistol grip;

    • a bayonet mount;

    • a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

    • a grenade launcher.
    (B) A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least two of the following:
    • an ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of the pistol grip;

    • a threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash suppressor, forward handgrip or silencer;

    • a shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel and permits the shooter to hold the firearm with the nontrigger hand without being burned;

    • a manufactured weight of fifty ounces or more when the pistol is unloaded; and

    • a semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
    (C) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least two of the following:
    • a folding or telescoping stock;

    • a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

    • a fixed magazine capacity in excess of five rounds; and

    • an ability to accept a detachable magazine.
  4. A part or combination of parts designed or intended to convert a firearm into an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3), or any combination of parts from which an assault weapon, as defined in subdivision (3), may be rapidly assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.
 
I know damn well what every possible variation of a bushmaster rifle looks like-I own 6 of that brand and at least 15 made by colt, DPMS, Armalite, SW, Rock River and STI.

and why are you posting this nonsense-it proves nothing

assault weapon is a made up term that has absolutely no relevance to people who actually understand guns. That definition is lumping simple semi autos with REAL assault rifles
 
dnsmith said:
The Bushmaster .223 rifle is not an assault rifle. It does not fire more than one round per trigger pull. If you want to try to ban the The Bushmaster .223 rifle that is your prerogative, but IT IS NOT AN ASSAULT RIFLE, even if Lt Vance mistakenly believes it is.
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According to Connecticut state law, as a semiautomatic firearm, all it required to constitute qualifying as an "assault weapon," was any two of the following attachments, along with a detachable magazine:

  • a folding or telescopic stock;

  • a pistol grip;

  • a bayonet mount;

  • a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

  • a grenade launcher.

Feel free to prove Lanza wasn't in possession of at least two of those or concede you don't actually know more than Connecticut state detective and lead investigator in this case, Lt. Paul Vance.

The weapon that was utilized most of the time during this horrific crime was identified as a Bushmaster AR-15 assault weapon" ~ Lead investigator, Lt. Paul Vance, Connecticut state police
 
TurtleDude said:
I know damn well what every possible variation of a bushmaster rifle looks like-I own 6 of that brand and at least 15 made by colt, DPMS, Armalite, SW, Rock River and STI.

and why are you posting this nonsense-it proves nothing

assault weapon is a made up term that has absolutely no relevance to people who actually understand guns. That definition is lumping simple semi autos with REAL assault rifles
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I like how you say you were a prosecutor -- but now you want to ignore the law! :lamo

Here it is again, in case you didn't understand it the first time ...

ASSAULT WEAPON

And despite your empty and desperate attempt to dismiss it as "nonsense" -- in reality, it's the law. Deal with it.
 
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