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Thread: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

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    Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Not according to this bit of research -

    Gun group says active killer events quadrupled after Gun Free School Zones Act - National gun rights | Examiner.com

    9f47da061ec9ea96ce11d92742676b93.jpg

    Please note that the author of this piece is ONLY talking about gun free zones which is why workplace shootings and the Giffords shooting are not included.

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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Not according to this bit of research -

    Gun group says active killer events quadrupled after Gun Free School Zones Act - National gun rights | Examiner.com

    9f47da061ec9ea96ce11d92742676b93.jpg

    Please note that the author of this piece is ONLY talking about gun free zones which is why workplace shootings and the Giffords shooting are not included.
    The only gun-free zones that protect people are those strictly enforced. I would assume that courthouses and the like might get really ugly if guns weren't banned.

    Just putting a sign up? They ought to be liable for damages when someone is shot. The only ones obeying those signs are law-abiding citizens. If you put a sign up on a movie theater that says, "Guns Not Allowed," and Batman Jerkoff wanders in and kills a dozen people with one? That movie theater should be civilly liable. (I think I'm turning crabby today.)
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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The only gun-free zones that protect people are those strictly enforced. I would assume that courthouses and the like might get really ugly if guns weren't banned.

    Just putting a sign up? They ought to be liable for damages when someone is shot. The only ones obeying those signs are law-abiding citizens. If you put a sign up on a movie theater that says, "Guns Not Allowed," and Batman Jerkoff wanders in and kills a dozen people with one? That movie theater should be civilly liable. (I think I'm turning crabby today.)
    I wouldn't go that far. I firmly believe that someone's property rights give them pretty broad leeway in what they may or may not permit on their premises. That being said, if it is reasonable that prohibiting firearms (or anything else) might present a specific danger to patrons then that's a different case.

    For all intents and purposes it isn't reasonable (legal definition) to suspect that prohibiting firearms in a movie theater or in a bar is going to create a dangerous situation so I figure that it's well within the property owners rights to prohibit them.

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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. I firmly believe that someone's property rights give them pretty broad leeway in what they may or may not permit on their premises. That being said, if it is reasonable that prohibiting firearms (or anything else) might present a specific danger to patrons then that's a different case.

    For all intents and purposes it isn't reasonable (legal definition) to suspect that prohibiting firearms in a movie theater or in a bar is going to create a dangerous situation so I figure that it's well within the property owners rights to prohibit them.
    You're probably right. Something called "foreseeable consequences" would seem to apply.
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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Not according to this bit of research -

    Gun group says active killer events quadrupled after Gun Free School Zones Act - National gun rights | Examiner.com

    9f47da061ec9ea96ce11d92742676b93.jpg

    Please note that the author of this piece is ONLY talking about gun free zones which is why workplace shootings and the Giffords shooting are not included.



    That pretty much tells the tale right there. Criminals and crazies love "gun free zones"... because they read them as "unarmed victims available here!"

    And obviously they are NOT gun-free... just free from law-abiding gun carriers, which helps nothing.

    But let's not allow more armed citizens to be available to protect schoolkids, heavens no, that would make too much sense and might actually work. Can't have that.
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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Not according to this bit of research -

    Gun group says active killer events quadrupled after Gun Free School Zones Act - National gun rights | Examiner.com

    9f47da061ec9ea96ce11d92742676b93.jpg

    Please note that the author of this piece is ONLY talking about gun free zones which is why workplace shootings and the Giffords shooting are not included.
    I don't think any of this resides on whether it's a gun free zone or not - it's the people that ****ed it all up by choosing to come in an murder everyone that does it.

    I honestly - truly - don't imagine that one or two armed teachers or adults in the vicinity of any sort of school shooting would have made a huge difference. Honestly - consider response time and the swiftness of tragedy to unfold . . . it wouldn't matter that much. Maybe once or twice it would have but otherwise - not at all.

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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    I wouldn't go that far. I firmly believe that someone's property rights give them pretty broad leeway in what they may or may not permit on their premises. That being said, if it is reasonable that prohibiting firearms (or anything else) might present a specific danger to patrons then that's a different case.

    For all intents and purposes it isn't reasonable (legal definition) to suspect that prohibiting firearms in a movie theater or in a bar is going to create a dangerous situation so I figure that it's well within the property owners rights to prohibit them.

    I disagree. If we're talking about your home, fine your house your rules. If we're talking about a business that is normally open to the public, then there ought to have to be a darn good reason for disarming the public on the premises, and the owner ought to be liable for criminal harm to the patrons he willfully disarmed.

    A public place is a place open to the public. If you disarm me, by gosh you ought to take responsibility for my safety.
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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Court houses are generally protected by armed police, metal detectors, and society can't afford that at every school - nor should it need to. The simple solution is to
    let every would be killer in this country know that schools are not gun free easy targets. Business owners can decide for themselves and live with the ramifications.
    Congress, obama should repeal the gun-free school zone act if they truly cared for or were concerned about childrens' safety. They aren't - they are concerned with
    controlling people - period.


    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    The only gun-free zones that protect people are those strictly enforced. I would assume that courthouses and the like might get really ugly if guns weren't banned.

    Just putting a sign up? They ought to be liable for damages when someone is shot. The only ones obeying those signs are law-abiding citizens. If you put a sign up on a movie theater that says, "Guns Not Allowed," and Batman Jerkoff wanders in and kills a dozen people with one? That movie theater should be civilly liable. (I think I'm turning crabby today.)
    "What difference" "does it make?"

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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't think any of this resides on whether it's a gun free zone or not - it's the people that ****ed it all up by choosing to come in an murder everyone that does it.

    I honestly - truly - don't imagine that one or two armed teachers or adults in the vicinity of any sort of school shooting would have made a huge difference. Honestly - consider response time and the swiftness of tragedy to unfold . . . it wouldn't matter that much. Maybe once or twice it would have but otherwise - not at all.

    "Gun Free Zones" are where most of these mass-murders take place... I think you can't call that insignificant.

    I think you also can't say whether a few armed persons present would have made the difference... sure it will depend on where they happen to be when the SHTF, and how much opportunity they have to respond, but IMO it is way better than nothing.
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    Re: Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aunt Spiker View Post
    I don't think any of this resides on whether it's a gun free zone or not - it's the people that ****ed it all up by choosing to come in an murder everyone that does it.

    I honestly - truly - don't imagine that one or two armed teachers or adults in the vicinity of any sort of school shooting would have made a huge difference. Honestly - consider response time and the swiftness of tragedy to unfold . . . it wouldn't matter that much. Maybe once or twice it would have but otherwise - not at all.
    I understand where you're coming from but the point of the study was that known gun free might well be attracting the kind of people you are talking about.

    One or two armed teachers probably wouldn't have been able to prevent the shooting from occurring but they very well may have been able to contain it. I had this conversation in another thread and this kind of ambush shooting is virtually impossible to protect against without extreme measures but in such situations an immediate armed response forces the assailant to focus on something other than continuing his killing spree and thus is likely to limit the damage he can do.

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