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Do Gun Free Zones actually protect people?

Blackdog said:
Total crime victims statistics - countries compared - Nationmaster

England has worse crime rate than the US, says Civitas study - Telegraph

England has worst crime rate in the West - This Britain - UK - The Independent

Do I need to post more?
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Perhaps.

First link is about total crime victims, not crimes committed, nor limitted to violent crimes.

Second link is limitted to robberies, burglaries and rapes, again not all violent crime, but a carefully selected subset of crimes.

Third link is a total joke as it is based only on a single "victims" survey; see quote below:

Some 40,000 people from 17 industrialised countries, including the US, Portugal, France and Poland, were asked whether they had been crime victims as part of the International Crime Victims Survey...
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EDIT: Of 100,000 people surveyed, NONE attested to being homicide victims, thus proving that homicide is very, very rare. :roll:
 
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Blackdog said:
So in other words my fine disarmed victim... I mean friend... you got nothing. :2wave:

So you can't argue the numbers so you resort to well... personal attacks. Duly noted. ;)
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I suppose that means something in Hebrew. Ask your Mummy to put it into English, kid. God bless!
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Perhaps.

First link is about total crime victims, not crimes committed, nor limitted to violent crimes.

Second link is limitted to robberies, burglaries and rapes, again not all violent crime, but a carefully selected subset of crimes.

Third link is a total joke as it is based only on a single "victims" survey; see quote below:
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Dunblane had a more dramatic impact. Hamilton had a firearm certificate, although according to the rules he should not have been granted one. A media frenzy coupled with an emotional campaign by parents of Dunblane resulted in the Firearms Act of 1998, which instituted a nearly complete ban on handguns. Owners of pistols were required to turn them in. The penalty for illegal possession of a pistol is up to 10 years in prison.

The results have not been what proponents of the act wanted. Within a decade of the handgun ban and the confiscation of handguns from registered owners, crime with handguns had doubled according to British government crime reports. Gun crime, not a serious problem in the past, now is. Armed street gangs have some British police carrying guns for the first time. Moreover, another massacre occurred in June 2010. Derrick Bird, a taxi driver in Cumbria, shot his brother and a colleague then drove off through rural villages killing 12 people and injuring 11 more before killing himself.

Meanwhile, law-abiding citizens who have come into the possession of a firearm, even accidentally, have been harshly treated. In 2009 a former soldier, Paul Clarke, found a bag in his garden containing a shotgun. He brought it to the police station and was immediately handcuffed and charged with possession of the gun. At his trial the judge noted: "In law there is no dispute that Mr. Clarke has no defence to this charge. The intention of anybody possessing a firearm is irrelevant." Mr. Clarke was sentenced to five years in prison. A public outcry eventually won his release. - Joyce Lee Malcolm: Two Cautionary Tales of Gun Control - WSJ.com

Then post numbers that refute the fact that violent crime in the UK is up. You can't because it is. While in other countries like the US it has been going down.

These are simple well known facts. This is why my friend from the UK has nothing but personal attacks to levy.
 
Penderyn said:
I suppose that means something in Hebrew. Ask your Mummy to put it into English, kid. God bless!
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Great debate skills. Those comprehensive stats and well researched numbers certainly did the trick. [/sracasm]
 
ttwtt78640 said:
EDIT: Of 100,000 people surveyed, NONE attested to being homicide victims, thus proving that homicide is very, very rare. :roll:
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Again who said anything about homicide???? I said violent crime. Nothing about just homicide.

Again with the same strawman.
 
Blackdog said:
Please point out where in my initial post I mentioned anything about homicide rate alone? I said violent crime. Nice strawman though.
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BS. Your reply, that I replied to addressed the posted MURDER RATE, not violent crime, so you too used a "strawman". :roll:
 
I mean can you leftist gun grabbers be real for a second?

In Australia and England gun control has been a failure. Yes gun crime is way down, in the same light most other violent crimes are not just up, but way up higher than gun crime has gone down. What does this tell you? Lets go further...

The root cause of gun crime in the US is NOT school shootings. It is inner city gang crime, period.

SO why don't we address the real problem and stop pretending it is guns.
 
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ttwtt78640 said:
BS. Your reply, that I replied to addressed the posted MURDER RATE, not violent crime, so you too used a "strawman". :roll:
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Which had nothing to do with my OVERALL rate, nothing. Keep reaching.
 
Blackdog said:
Which had nothing to do with my OVERALL rate, nothing. Keep reaching.
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I am having a very difficult time in getting any "apples to apples" definition of "voilent crime", especially for entire nations. Many here are using "victim's surveys" and simply public impressions, rather than police reports of violent crime. Some, as the UK, consider the victim's surveys as "facts" regardless of if the crimes were actually reported to police, or verified to have occured. That alone is bound to up crime statistics over including only those crimes actually reported to the police, as is used in the US crime statistics.

Violent crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Comparing countries is difficult because there are many complex factors in play. Attempting to draw direct parallels between different nations in a simplistic manner is foolish... Australia isn't the UK and neither is the US.

One thing about UK violent crime... as many expat Brits I've known have commented "You don't have the massive problem with public drunkeness in the US that we had in Britain, or crowds of drunken revelers walking the streets at night and brawling with each other."

There are innumerable cultural, legal, historic, economic, demographical and other differences between nations that make any such comparison apples-and-oranges...
 
Penderyn said:
The facts are universally known, kid. Don't waste grown-ups' time.
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The "facts" are as I presented them. You on the other hand have presented nothing but, well nothing, nothing at all. Unless you count personal attacks as some kind of debating?

What does this tell you?
 
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