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    Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com

    (CNN) -- A man convicted of killing his grandmother decades ago ambushed firefighters on Monday, fatally shooting two of them as they arrived to battle a blaze in upstate New York, police said.

    Two other volunteer firefighters were wounded in the attack in the Rochester-area town of Webster. A police officer from the nearby town of Greece suffered minor shrapnel wounds when his vehicle was hit by gunfire.

    Investigators believe the suspect, William Spengler, 62, set the original fire, then likely set himself up on a berm with a clear view of the scene and started shooting.
    Investigators say that William Spengler, 62, deliberately lured firefighters to the house fire.
    Investigators say that William Spengler, 62, deliberately lured firefighters to the house fire.

    "It appears that it was a trap," Webster Police Chief Gerald Pickering said. "There was a car and a house that were involved in flames, probably set by Mr. Spengler, who laid in wait in armament and then shot the first responders."

    Authorities do not know how Spengler -- who was found dead of a self-inflicted gunshot wound hours after the four firefighters were shot -- obtained the weapon or weapons he used or why he opened fire, Pickering told reporters. As a convicted felon, Spengler was not allowed to legally possess weapons, but he had "several different types of weapons" Monday, the police chief said.

    Spengler was convicted in 1981 of first-degree manslaughter in the death of his grandmother and had been released on supervised parole, Pickering said.

    N.Y. man who shot dead 2 firefighters killed grandmother in 1980

    He is believed to have lived in the home where the original fire erupted with his sister, who has not yet been accounted for, Pickering said. Their mother died sometime in the past year, the chief added.

    In chilling audio heard over the scanner, a West Webster Fire Department firefighter reported "multiple firemen shot" -- including himself, with wounds to his lower back and lower leg -- and "shots still being fired."
    Police: Gunman set trap for firefighters
    2 firefighters shot dead at house fire

    "I'm pretty sure that we have two DOAs" -- the term for dead on arrival -- "on the street," the wounded firefighter said. "... They're down and not good."

    For several hours after that Monday, the threat of gunfire stopped firefighters from battling the blaze and forced police SWAT teams to evacuate 33 people in the neighborhood of small, waterfront homes.

    Eventually, seven houses were "totally destroyed" by the fire. Although the fires were under control as of 2:30 p.m. ET, by then authorities still hadn't been able to get in any of the homes. Pickering said it's possible more victims could be inside.

    "I'm hoping that everyone was able to escape from the inferno," he said. "Those houses were close together."

    With 'raging inferno' and gunfire, scene described as 'chaos'

    Firefighters first arrived at the Webster fire before 6 a.m., said Rob Boutillier, the town's fire marshal.

    By then, Spengler had set up himself somewhere above the scene in a "natural hollow, a position of cover to actually be a sniper," Pickering explained.

    The calls from firefighter came in soon after, reporting that four of them had been shot. Police officers rushed to the scene, and one of the first ones there exchanged fire, "in all likelihood, (saving) many lives," according to the police chief.

    "When we get there, we have people down, we have raging fires, and we have gunshots going off," Pickering said.

    "It's chaos. It's chaos."

    Authorities worked quickly to set up a perimeter, trying to contain the situation and the shooter. Neighborhood residents were first told to "shelter in place" because the gunman was at large, but some left their homes because of the fire.

    Several people could be seen running. Police tracked some of them down, found they were neighbors seeking safety and escorted them out. Eventually, residents were whisked from the area in armored personnel carriers. All the while, there was "this raging inferno, with black smoke everywhere," Pickering said.

    No more gunfire was exchanged after that initial burst, though police did see a man they believed to be Spengler moving at times. The police chief said he didn't know if the police officer hit Spengler early on, but he said the medical examiner indicated that Spengler died after shooting himself in the head.

    Two firefighters also died at the scene.
    Police have identified one of the firefighters killed as Lt. Mike Chiapperini.
    Police have identified one of the firefighters killed as Lt. Mike Chiapperini.

    One of them, Lt. Michael Chiapperini, was a veteran of the West Webster Fire Department and a police lieutenant. He'd been named Firefighter of the Year just two weeks ago, and not long before that, he had volunteered to go to Long Island to help those suffering after Superstorm Sandy, according to Lt. Gov. Bob Duffy.

    The other slain firefighter was Tomasz Kaczowka, who was also a 911 dispatcher. He'd been with the West Webster Fire Department for just more than a year, fire department spokesman Al Sienkiewicz said.

    One firefighter escaped from the scene in his own vehicle about an hour after he was shot and was taken to a hospital by an ambulance from another location, Boutillier said. Another wounded firefighter was conscious and speaking when he was removed from the scene, he said.

    The wounded firefighters were in intensive care Monday at Strong Memorial Hospital in Rochester, New York, officials said.

    The other person wounded was a Greece, New York, police officer who was on his way to work when his car was fired upon. He suffered shrapnel wounds that Pickering described as minor.

    "We work with these people everyday; they're like our brothers," said Pickering of the slain firefighters, as he fought back tears. "It's terrible."

    New shooting spurs more talk on gun control

    Authorities have not said what weapons were found with Spengler, though Pickering said "probably at least a rifle was used" to shoot the first responders.

    "I know that many people are going to be asking, 'Were they assault rifles?' I don't know that. I can't answer that at this time," he told reporters.

    The shooting occurred amid a renewed gun control debate after the December 14 elementary school massacre in Newtown, Connecticut, that killed 26 people, most of them children. The gunman in that case, Adam Lanza, also killed his mother and himself.

    The head of a lobbying group that represents first responders said the Monday shooting was "senseless and cruel."

    "The firefighters who responded today were performing a selfless, meaningful service to their community, unaware that a cold-hearted maniac was planning to ambush them and take their lives," said Harold Schaitberger, general president of the Washington-based International Association of Fire Fighters. "Coming on the heels of the horrific tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, and on Christmas Eve, this shooting is even harder to comprehend."

    New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo described the Webster shooting as "horrific." And the state's attorney general called it a "senseless tragedy"

    President Barack Obama has set a January deadline for "concrete proposals" to deal with gun violence in the wake of the Newtown school shooting.

    Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-California, has said she will introduce legislation to reinstate the assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, while National Rifle Association CEO Wayne LaPierre has said his group will fight any new gun restrictions, saying most gun laws now on the books are rarely enforced.

    Pickering, the Webster police chief, said it was important -- in the wake of the shooting in his town and others -- to "get a handle on gun control." He also said more needs to be done to make sure that dangerous people aren't in society, where they can kill.

    "For the last 20 years we have been turning people loose and deinstitutionalizing people, and I think we've swung too far," he said. "I think there are still people that need to be in institutions that are a danger to themselves or others. And this is a classic example."

    Are you there? Share your stories, pictures and videos, but stay safe.
    How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com



    How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
    How about a little compromise? If the anti gun group concentrates their efforts on illegal guns in the hands of those felons, mentally ill, and others not allowed possession, including those stolen from legal gun owners, and and also including prosecution of those using guns illegally, once these are rounded up and gun crime continues, then the legal law abiding gun owners will reconsider ownership.

    A person who sets a fire for the purpose of luring firemen into a trap is sick. No amount of control of anything is going to stop this.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com



    How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
    Maybe we should ban recreational (street) drugs too. Remember that banning things does not make them go away, it raises their prices and creates huge profits for criminal gangs that fill the legal supply vacuum created.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post


    How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
    imagine that... another bad guy who chose to break our laws and killed honorable men.


    we've been over your "ban firearms completely" idea.... you have a better shot at winning the Powerball 5 times in a row...stop trying to pass it off as a valid solution, it's not.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by jimbo View Post
    How about a little compromise? If the anti gun group concentrates their efforts on illegal guns in the hands of those felons, mentally ill, and others not allowed possession, including those stolen from legal gun owners, and and also including prosecution of those using guns illegally, once these are rounded up and gun crime continues, then the legal law abiding gun owners will reconsider ownership.
    There have been concessions made already. As many gun owners have correctly pointed out, there is no way to control gun ownership. As long as gun ownership remains legal it will be impossible to have any type of control over it at all.

    A person who sets a fire for the purpose of luring firemen into a trap is sick. No amount of control of anything is going to stop this.
    So gun owners have given up also. I am right there with you, there is no way to stop this unless guns are completely banned. Once we get the number of guns out there down to a manageable number we can reduce the probability of things like this happening.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Maybe we should ban recreational (street) drugs too. Remember that banning things does not make them go away, it raises their prices and creates huge profits for criminal gangs that fill the legal supply vacuum created.
    Drugs are a completely different issue. I don't know of anyone addicted to guns, and if they are, it is even more a reason they should be taken away from them. Your not going to fight drug's the same way you fight illegal gun ownership. Drugs needs to be decriminalized. Not legalized, but decriminalized. At least decriminalized at a personal usage amount. Anyone caught with an amount with the intent to distribute should still receive severe punishment IMO along with anyone caught MFRing drugs. The only way we will get the drug problem under control is if we start focusing on the big fish, not the user. Users need medical / psychological intervention to get them off their addiction.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    imagine that... another bad guy who chose to break our laws and killed honorable men.


    we've been over your "ban firearms completely" idea.... you have a better shot at winning the Powerball 5 times in a row...stop trying to pass it off as a valid solution, it's not.

    You are probably right, but it does not mean I cant have an opinion. I think if we continue to keep having these kind of issues, the gun owners will have to make some major concessions.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    Drugs are a completely different issue. I don't know of anyone addicted to guns, and if they are, it is even more a reason they should be taken away from them. Your not going to fight drug's the same way you fight illegal gun ownership. Drugs needs to be decriminalized. Not legalized, but decriminalized. At least decriminalized at a personal usage amount. Anyone caught with an amount with the intent to distribute should still receive severe punishment IMO along with anyone caught MFRing drugs. The only way we will get the drug problem under control is if we start focusing on the big fish, not the user. Users need medical / psychological intervention to get them off their addiction.
    drugs are banned... private sales are banned.... legal sales and manufacture of drugs is banned.
    yet they are easy to procure by anyone who wants them.

    alcohol was banned at one time.. private sales were banned... manufacture and legal sales of alcohol were banned
    yet alcohol was easy to procure if you wanted it.

    and you are here trying to tell intelligent people that prohibition actually does work


    I'm amazed that there are still prohibitionists who are befuddled why their idiot bans don't work..... "stuck on stupid" is putting it mildly
    welcome to earth, where prohibition does not work when there is demand for the prohibited item.

    i'd love to ban stupidity, but there is obviously a high demand for it.... so it will never work.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    drugs are banned... private sales are banned.... legal sales and manufacture of drugs is banned.
    yet they are easy to procure by anyone who wants them.

    alcohol was banned at one time.. private sales were banned... manufacture and legal sales of alcohol were banned
    yet alcohol was easy to procure if you wanted it.

    and you are here trying to tell intelligent people that prohibition actually does work


    I'm amazed that there are still prohibitionists who are befuddled why their idiot bans don't work..... "stuck on stupid" is putting it mildly
    welcome to earth, where prohibition does not work when there is demand for the prohibited item.

    i'd love to ban stupidity, but there is obviously a high demand for it.... so it will never work.
    Alcohol and drugs are mental addictions. They are completely different than firearms. You are not going to have withdrawls and severe physical issues because you can't own a gun. You are comparing apples and oranges.
    - There was never a good war, or a bad peace.
    - Idealistically, everything should work as you planed it to. Realistically, it depends on how idealistic you are as to the measure of success.
    - Better to be a pessimist before, and an optimist afterwords.

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    Re: Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Capster78 View Post
    'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com



    How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
    isn't New York a wet dream for the Brady gun haters.

    looks like it failed

    and tell me-if capital murder sentences doesn't deter someone how would your silly gun bans prevent them from engaging in premeditated capital murder

    Oh and if you are going to make the silly claim it would keep them from getting the guns tell me how prohibition and the war on drugs worked out

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