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Man ambushes Firefighters responding to a fire.

'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com



How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.
you WILL of course rush right out IMMEDIATELY and go door to door and begin confiscating those illegal weapons from criminals first...right? Don't hesitate...don't wait a SECOND. Get your ass a nice little group of you...hell...on this site alone you should have your own little posse...and get to getting. Let us know how that works out...then we will talk about coming after legally held firearms from law abiding citizens. Cant WAIT to read about all your success.
 
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(1) The statement floated that 90% of the guns in Mexico originated in the US is false. The origin was a group of weapon serial numbers sent to ATF by the Mexican government for verification that they originated in the US. These were already believed to originate in the US. The majority of drug lord guns in Mexico are either stolen from the Mexican government or come in from the south and overseas and are generally not available in the US. It might pointed out that F & F was not a joint effort between the US and Mexico. Mexico authorities were not informed.

It's not quite that high, and I doubt we will ever know the real number. But what we do know is this...

Mexicans have a constitutional right to own firearms,[1] but legal purchase from the single Mexican gun shop in Mexico City, controlled by the Army, is extremely difficult.[2] "According to [U.S.] Justice Department figures, in the past five years 94,000 weapons have been recovered from Mexican drug cartels, of which 64,000 -- 70 percent -- come from the United States."[3] Once guns are obtained at gunshops in the United States, they are then smuggled into Mexico across the US-Mexico border.[4][5] In other cases the guns are obtained through Guatemalan borders[6] or stolen from the police or military.[7] Consequently, black market firearms are widely available. Many firearms are acquired in the U.S. by women with no criminal history, who transfer their purchases to smugglers through relatives, boyfriends and acquaintances and then smuggled to Mexico a few at a time.[8] The most common smuggled firearms include AR-15 and AK-47 type rifles, and FN 5.7 caliber semi-automatic pistols. Many firearms are purchased in the United States in a semi-automatic configuration before being converted to fire as select fire machine guns.[9] Mexico seized in 2009 a combined total of more than 4,400 firearms of the AK-47 and AR-15 type, and 30% of AK-47 type rifles seized have been modified to select fire weapons, effectively creating assault rifles.

While you may be right that there are other sources from which these drug lords get their weapons, we are a large source for them and there is no way you can argue your way out of that simple fact.

(2) Again false. Depending on your definition of mass murders about half are committed with firearms, and the largest are committed by other means. Guns are not too efficient for mass killings. Slightly less people die from gunshot than autos in the US each year, 30000 to 32,000 but only 8000 are homicides. Twice that number are suicides. I can find no numbers on vehicular homicides.

there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

Gun crime statistics by US state: download the data. Visualised | World news | guardian.co.uk

I don't know where the poster above got his "1%" information from but based on that number, that means 67% of all murders were gun related.

Your statement that you are almost positive that the US got some intelligence out of F & F that may help in the future sounds like fantasy speculation. Once again, very few guns actually float across the border from the US. Most gun dealers are honest, and the US does not have much market for machine guns.

That is almost as rediculous as saying very few drugs pass over the US boarder.
 
you WILL of course rush right out IMMEDIATELY and go door to door and begin confiscating those illegal weapons from criminals first...right? Don't hesitate...don't wait a SECOND. Get your ass a nice little group of you...hell...on this site alone you should have your own little posse...and get to getting. Let us know how that works out...then we will talk about coming after legally held firearms from law abiding citizens. Cant WAIT to read about all your success.

I don't even know why I am responding to this, I guess I will quote it just because it is just that dumb.
 
I don't even know why I am responding to this, I guess I will quote it just because it is just that dumb.

Right. So...typically, you don really want to collect all those illegal weapons...you just want to ban guns and take them from law abiding citizens and don't have the balls or strength of conviction to actually go after the guns in the hands of criminals. Shocking.
 
The statistics don't lie. This is why we need a two pronged attack on both drugs and gun ownership. Decriminalize drugs and treat the people who have become addicted, while going after the distributors and manufacturers. Ban firearms completely...If we do this, gun violence will be reduced greatly.




A ban on rifles is not going to lower gun violence. As was said above, must gun violence is perpetrated by ex-convicts on other ex-convicts (people with criminal records). Most of these people are lower income and can not afford a rifle so they generally can only afford cheap handguns. Not only does this point out the fact that if we banned guns the fact that they would be so much more expensive on the black market might alone lower gun violence, but that in general, if your not involved in criminal activity, there is very little risk of ever having to defend yourself against someone with a gun.

You want to decriminilize drugs to solve that problem and at the same time criminilize guns to solve that problem? Makes sense to me. You want to treat addicts for their addiction, which could be argued is a mental illness, and ignore the fact that mass murderers are all mentally ill, and solve that problem by banning one of the tools of murder? The drug traffic ought to tell you what is the affect of bans. Last I heard, drugs were banned. That should be the end of the drug problem.

Those criminal on criminal murders will not decrease if we ban guns, which you now state will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals but will only make them more expensive. We had a ban on Saturday night specials, and it did not affect the murder rate one whit. My weapons are there to defend myself and others is the need arises.
 
You want to decriminilize drugs to solve that problem and at the same time criminilize guns to solve that problem? Makes sense to me. You want to treat addicts for their addiction, which could be argued is a mental illness, and ignore the fact that mass murderers are all mentally ill, and solve that problem by banning one of the tools of murder? The drug traffic ought to tell you what is the affect of bans. Last I heard, drugs were banned. That should be the end of the drug problem.

Those criminal on criminal murders will not decrease if we ban guns, which you now state will not keep guns out of the hands of criminals but will only make them more expensive. We had a ban on Saturday night specials, and it did not affect the murder rate one whit. My weapons are there to defend myself and others is the need arises.

Most gun violence is not from mass murder, it is from every day criminal activities. The vast majority of those criminals are not mentally insane, they are just criminals. So the gun issue is not a psychological issue.
 
Right. So...typically, you don really want to collect all those illegal weapons...you just want to ban guns and take them from law abiding citizens and don't have the balls or strength of conviction to actually go after the guns in the hands of criminals. Shocking.

I am not going to steal peoples guns or take them by force. Currently it is legal and they are not breaking any laws as long as they purchased them legally. I am not a law enforcement officer and even if I were, I would not have justification to take anyone's firearm even if I knew it was purchased illegally.
 
I am not going to steal peoples guns or take them by force. Currently it is legal and they are not breaking any laws as long as they purchased them legally. I am not a law enforcement officer and even if I were, I would not have justification to take anyone's firearm even if I knew it was purchased illegally.

You aren't going to do ****. You are going to advocate for worthless bans that will be as effective at keeping guns from the hands of criminals as drug bans have been at keeping illegal drugs out of the country. You talk weak **** about bans but when it comes to taking guns from criminals you are impotent. Not at all surprising.

Like I said, hero. Get your ass anxiously engaged in your "good work" go after the guns in the hands of thugs, criminals, and gang bangers. You pull that off...then come talk about banning a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Let us know how it works out.
 
obvious response to this is to arm the firefighters add them to the list. Great xmas for the NRA.
 
You aren't going to do ****. You are going to advocate for worthless bans that will be as effective at keeping guns from the hands of criminals as drug bans have been at keeping illegal drugs out of the country. You talk weak **** about bans but when it comes to taking guns from criminals you are impotent. Not at all surprising.

Like I said, hero. Get your ass anxiously engaged in your "good work" go after the guns in the hands of thugs, criminals, and gang bangers. You pull that off...then come talk about banning a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Let us know how it works out.

I sense frustration! Good, you should be. Because there is going to be some kind of law passed and some action taken soon. It may not be a complete ban, but it will be at least progress. The fact that your so frustrated that your posts are almost threatening makes me fell good. That means gun owners are feeling the pressure, and they should. If gun violence continues and is continually highlighted, there will have to be some major changes.
 
There is no way to do this at all. If they were the least bit scared of going to jail, they would not be committing a crime to begin with. Harsher punishments only put more a burden on the tax payers who will have to pay for them to live a comfortable life behind bars without contributing to society at all.

Wrong. It may not deter a murderer but it will deter a lot of run of the mill burglars.

As for taxpayer burden, how much is it going to cost for your giagantic Gestapo police force to go door to door and confiscate the 300 million plus guns you want to ban?

Oh, you think a people who have been conditioned for centuries that owning a gun is their sacred right are just going to all line up to turn them in huh?

Good luck with that.

Do you want a civil war?
 
I sense frustration! Good, you should be. Because there is going to be some kind of law passed and some action taken soon. It may not be a complete ban, but it will be at least progress. The fact that your so frustrated that your posts are almost threatening makes me fell good. That means gun owners are feeling the pressure, and they should. If gun violence continues and is continually highlighted, there will have to be some major changes.

Frustration? Nah...your mind reading skilz are weak. Derision is much more accurate. Revulsion. Disgust. Those are also companion responses.

Gun violence has been a constant in this county and people like you turn a blind eye to it as log as it is black on black, gang crime, or typical day to day bloodshed. No...it's not until a school shooting or in this case the death of firemen that people like come out of the woodwork and dance in the blood while you try to advance your anti-gun ideas. Day to day violence? Crickets. Pathetic.

Come in hero. Round up some of your pals and go through the inner cities...the gangs...the thugs and criminals. You want those guns...you can FEEEEL it. Go get em. Show us all how truly committed to your ideology you are. Nah....you won't go there. You just want "a law". You want "a ban". You don't care if it actually accomplishes anything.
 
Wrong. It may not deter a murderer but it will deter a lot of run of the mill burglars.

As for taxpayer burden, how much is it going to cost for your giagantic Gestapo police force to go door to door and confiscate the 300 million plus guns you want to ban?

Oh, you think a people who have been conditioned for centuries that owning a gun is their sacred right are just going to all line up to turn them in huh?

Good luck with that.

Do you want a civil war?

If people feel their right to own a firearm is worth putting the country through a civil war, that is even more a reason to take them away. You want to put this country into a financial whirlwind over your gun. You care more about owning a firearm than eating? A civil war would destroy this country. I find it very disturbing that people are that attached to their guns that they want to go to war to keep them. I may have been wrong, gun ownership may be a mental disorder.
 
Frustration? Nah...your mind reading skilz are weak. Derision is much more accurate. Revulsion. Disgust. Those are also companion responses.

Gun violence has been a constant in this county and people like you turn a blind eye to it as log as it is black on black, gang crime, or typical day to day bloodshed. No...it's not until a school shooting or in this case the death of firemen that people like come out of the woodwork and dance in the blood while you try to advance your anti-gun ideas. Day to day violence? Crickets. Pathetic.

Come in hero. Round up some of your pals and go through the inner cities...the gangs...the thugs and criminals. You want those guns...you can FEEEEL it. Go get em. Show us all how truly committed to your ideology you are. Nah....you won't go there. You just want "a law". You want "a ban". You don't care if it actually accomplishes anything.

So because I am not going to go out and try to take a gangsters gun, I have no credibility? That's asinine. We don't even know how many illegal firearms there are out there. The only way to know this would be to actually have police go door to door and check. If we want to keep firearms legal, that would probably be the only way to do it. However, it still wont stop someone from obtaining one illegally because they are so widely available.
 
you WILL of course rush right out IMMEDIATELY and go door to door and begin confiscating those illegal weapons from criminals first...right? Don't hesitate...don't wait a SECOND. Get your ass a nice little group of you...hell...on this site alone you should have your own little posse...and get to getting. Let us know how that works out...then we will talk about coming after legally held firearms from law abiding citizens. Cant WAIT to read about all your success.

You remind me of what Viktyr said in a similar post. Paraphrased: "And when they come to my door to collect my guns, I'll be sure to give them to them...ammunition first."

:rofl
 
If people feel their right to own a firearm is worth putting the country through a civil war, that is even more a reason to take them away. You want to put this country into a financial whirlwind over your gun. You care more about owning a firearm than eating? A civil war would destroy this country. I find it very disturbing that people are that attached to their guns that they want to go to war to keep them. I may have been wrong, gun ownership may be a mental disorder.

How attached are you to your right to vote or your right to free speech?
 
So because I am not going to go out and try to take a gangsters gun, I have no credibility? That's asinine. We don't even know how many illegal firearms there are out there. The only way to know this would be to actually have police go door to door and check. If we want to keep firearms legal, that would probably be the only way to do it. However, it still wont stop someone from obtaining one illegally because they are so widely available.

Because you have no desire but to pass mindless gun laws that would target only law abiding citizens you have no credibility. Because you are too gutless to target thugs criminals and gang bangers you have no balls. Because you ignore the day to day violence and only engage shootings when it is convenient to your mindless ideology you have no character. Does that make it clear enough for you?
 
How attached are you to your right to vote or your right to free speech?
These rights are paramount to our "free" society. You can have a "free" society without guns.
 
Because you have no desire but to pass mindless gun laws that would target only law abiding citizens you have no credibility. Because you are too gutless to target thugs criminals and gang bangers you have no balls. Because you ignore the day to day violence and only engage shootings when it is convenient to your mindless ideology you have no character. Does that make it clear enough for you?

And what you don't understand, and what no one has ever debated me on, was that all guns start out in legal owners hands. That is the only way to reduce the black market is to reduce the pool of legal guns.
 
And what you don't understand, and what no one has ever debated me on, was that all guns start out in legal owners hands. That is the only way to reduce the black market is to reduce the pool of legal guns.

And all that heroin...that started out in the hands of legal drug owners, right? That drug ban...that has worked out so well, right?

What you continue to ignore is you and people like you don't say **** about guns crime and violence until the deaths suit your ideological cause.

No doubt...some people have violated the law and abused their rights. The tremendously vast majority have not. But...

You go after those criminals guns. Get to stepping. Good luck.
 
These rights are paramount to our "free" society. You can have a "free" society without guns.
What you are advocating will never happen here. The most you will get is an ineffective ban on so-called assault weapons, and you may not even get that, therefore I think your plan to leave this country is the best course of action for you. I don't think you should wait for 10 years, but do it asap.

In the meantime, since you feel there is no benefit to a free people having the right to keep and bear arms, you should not be allowed to even have a chance to derive any possible benefit, including that of crime deterrence and you should have to allow all your neighbors to display this sign.

neighbor not armed.jpg
 
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Drugs are a completely different issue. I don't know of anyone addicted to guns, and if they are, it is even more a reason they should be taken away from them. Your not going to fight drug's the same way you fight illegal gun ownership. Drugs needs to be decriminalized. Not legalized, but decriminalized. At least decriminalized at a personal usage amount. Anyone caught with an amount with the intent to distribute should still receive severe punishment IMO along with anyone caught MFRing drugs. The only way we will get the drug problem under control is if we start focusing on the big fish, not the user. Users need medical / psychological intervention to get them off their addiction.

So wants (addictions) are important to you but Constitutional rights should not be treated so strictly? You need some serious help in understanding the difference between what laws/policies you want and what is actually permitted by the Constitution.
 
'Chaos:' Gunman ambushes, kills two firefighters at New York blaze - CNN.com



How is gun control working out for us? Again, yet another example of why we should completely ban firearms. This guy was a convicted fellon and should not have been able to access firearms at all. Due to there being so many firearms floating around this country, it is easy to get one illegally. This guy did not have just one weapons either, they say he had several weapons.

You feel free to come and get mine anytime that you want.......
 
So this dude served his time for killing his grandmother with a hammer. Did he hammer in the morning, or did he hammer in the evening?

Seems like he should still be hammering in prison.
 
What you are advocating will never happen here. The most you will get is an ineffective ban on so-called assault weapons, and you may not even get that, therefore I think your plan to leave this country is the best course of action for you. I don't think you should wait for 10 years, but do it asap.

In the meantime, since you feel there is no benefit to a free people having the right to keep and bear arms, you should not be allowed to even have a chance to derive any possible benefit, including that of crime deterrence and you should have to allow all your neighbors to display this sign.

View attachment 67139871

Wow... So you would go so far as to wish violence on people who have a different opinion than you? I guess your right to guns is worth more than someone elses right to life. Yes, kill me, kill my kids, kill my wife and my dog just because I don't think anyone should own guns.

And yes, I will be leaving in about 10 years once I have the funds to do so. I will be sipping margaritas on the beach while you guys are still scratching your heads trying to figure out how these things keep happening.
 
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