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Thread: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The problem with debt.spending is that the ONLY group that has ever come together to try to stop this got vilified for doing so. Whether or not you agree with the Tea Party, they have been the only group that has stood up to the status quo and tried to change things. We haven't seen ANY effort from the Left to make a change, just an ongoing support of the status quo within the Dem. party. I think that most of us can agree that both parties are crap at handling debt/spending, yet only conservatives have tried to fix this problem. We need a Left version of the Tea Party, but what we're getting is more and more of the same old, same old. If we are ever going to fix this problem, we need to break the mold and get us out of this rut.
    Conservatives tried to fix what? The only thing the teas tried to fix was a black man in the Whitehouse. They ate Trump and his Trillion % stimulus up like candy. He will get it too or Congress will get a lot of nasty tweets.
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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Greece has been doing your austerity prescriptions since 2010 and it's only made things worse. Also, Greece doesn't have its own currency, which is why it has to rely on creditors. Those creditors made a killing on Greece, by the way. Please don't speak about things of which you have no idea.




    That makes no sense whatsoever. Why do we need to reduce spending in one area in order to increase it in another? Why not just raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations who have made a killing during the Obama years? There's over $2.1T of corporate profits sitting in banks in socialist countries in Europe. When are they gonna trickle-down? The answer, of course, is never. Tax cuts were a false promise designed to trick the less bright into redistributing wealth to the top 1%.




    Your problem is that you think federal debt and personal debt are analogous. But they're not. Conservatives either know this, and are playing stupid, or they don't and should not be allowed a seat at the table. In theory, the debt of the United States never has to be paid off. Why? Because the United States isn't a person whose life will end, thus leaving creditors in the lurch. Thing is, you people know this, but you pretend you don't for ideological reasons. Why? Because Conservatives are party-before-country. Always.
    And tax cuts before fiscal responsibility too!
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    And tax cuts before fiscal responsibility too!
    I'm convinced the reason Conservatives rubber-band back to tax cuts is because "tax cuts" is only two syllables and it's something they can (kinda) spell.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Greece has been doing your austerity prescriptions
    This ended the conversation in this portion of your response.



    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    That makes no sense whatsoever. Why do we need to reduce spending in one area in order to increase it in another? Why not just raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations who have made a killing during the Obama years? There's over $2.1T of corporate profits sitting in banks in socialist countries in Europe. When are they gonna trickle-down? The answer, of course, is never. Tax cuts were a false promise designed to trick the less bright into redistributing wealth to the top 1%.
    Rhetorical responses and hyperbolic attacks (trickle-down for instance) with no factual basis in reality tend to not garner a response other than one like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    Your problem is that you think federal debt and personal debt are analogous. But they're not. Conservatives either know this, and are playing stupid, or they don't and should not be allowed a seat at the table. In theory, the debt of the United States never has to be paid off. Why? Because the United States isn't a person whose life will end, thus leaving creditors in the lurch. Thing is, you people know this, but you pretend you don't for ideological reasons. Why? Because Conservatives are party-before-country. Always.
    ***SMH***

    If you would like to have a discussion without the personal attacks, I may choose to participate.
    Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    This ended the conversation in this portion of your response.
    As a condition of receiving a bailout from the ECB, Greece had to severely cut back spending beginning in 2010. They've been doing that ever since. You correctly point out that Greece continues to do terribly. Well, the reason is obviously because of the austerity measures inflicted on the country by people who outright lied about debt's effect on GDP.



    Rhetorical responses and hyperbolic attacks (trickle-down for instance) with no factual basis in reality tend to not garner a response other than one like this.
    Look dude, I get it. You don't want to admit that what you believe is nothing more than a crock. I'd be the same way if the roles were reversed. What you lack in dignity and grace, you more than make up for with arrogance and ignorance. It seems to me that your understanding of these topics is barely skin-deep, and thus you have to come up with (not so) clever ways of avoiding and evading. The fact is that Conservatives have, for the last 35 years, prescribed spending cuts and tax cuts as the cure for middling economic growth as a result of tax and spending cuts. So it's hard to see how you're not perpetuating a problem that you caused, for no other reason than to complain about it because you feel insecure in your sad, failed arguments. Conservatives have not changed one iota of their platform the last 35 years, despite all the empiricial evidence that shows supply-side-economics was really just a means by which wealth was redistributed to the top 1%. Which is precisely what has happened over the last 35 years. I don't expect you to take responsibility for it, what I expect is you to take responsibility for defending it knowing it's tragically and (almost) comically flawed to its core.


    If you would like to have a discussion without the personal attacks, I may choose to participate.
    How did I personally attack you? How is anything I'm saying untrue? You guys are party-before-country. Always.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by faithful_servant View Post
    The problem with debt.spending is that the ONLY group that has ever come together to try to stop this got vilified for doing so. Whether or not you agree with the Tea Party, they have been the only group that has stood up to the status quo and tried to change things. We haven't seen ANY effort from the Left to make a change, just an ongoing support of the status quo within the Dem. party. I think that most of us can agree that both parties are crap at handling debt/spending, yet only conservatives have tried to fix this problem. We need a Left version of the Tea Party, but what we're getting is more and more of the same old, same old. If we are ever going to fix this problem, we need to break the mold and get us out of this rut.
    Yes FS, you were vilified for suddenly demanding we cut spending to reduce the deficit in the depths of the worst recession since the depression. Yes you were also vilified for only becoming concerned about deficits starting 1/20/2009. yes you were vilified for believing that the stimulus would cause "hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero". yes you were vilified for threatening to default on the debt. Yes you were vilified for refusing to acknowledge President Obama inherited the trillion dollar Bush Deficits (yes they have a name) Yes, you were vilified for continually claiming it was only a spending problem when it was really mostly a revenue problem. And rightfully so.

    You and yours ranted about deficits and republicans exploited your ignorance to obstruct President Obama's attempts to not only fix the economy but lower the deficit. I think its clear that you believe the budget should be balanced every year. That's as dumb as when you and yours believed the stimulus would cause "hyper inflation, dollar collapse, market to zero". Anyhoo, get your excuses ready for when a republican president and a republican congress explode the deficit.
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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The problem in attributing deficits to the responsible actor is that a crash made in one period needs to be fixed in the next.
    Well, by that measure, all indications point to a near complete failure by the GOP, from either causing a return to Raygun GDP gains.....or a continuation of a GWShrub collapse.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Well, by that measure, all indications point to a near complete failure by the GOP, from either causing a return to Raygun GDP gains.....or a continuation of a GWShrub collapse.
    Not sure, what you mean.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Not sure, what you mean.
    I'm not sure why you placed a comma in the middle of your sentence....but I am sure you are unable to express your confusion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Beaudreaux View Post
    That's why countries like Greece are in free fall collapse, and have been for years - federal debt has little-to-no impact on the economy.

    Rebuilding our infrastructure should be of critical and primary importance, but... we need to reduce spending in other areas that are not as critical, and revenues increased through tax code changes that eliminate loopholes, deductions, and tax shelters, rather than increasing taxes on the ones that drive the economy (middle class and business owners).

    Robbing Peter to pay Paul, borrowing from the bank (just another version of robbing Peter to pay Paul), or what may be worse, printing money (monetizing the debt) just to have more money to spend, has never worked for long because at some point the bill comes due and has to be paid back. Even federal debt.
    Name one time when sovereign debt came due and had to be paid up, and not simply rolled over.
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