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Thread: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

  1. #111
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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Baralis View Post
    My opinion: to help maintain confidence in our currency by presenting a means in which the government can repay debts. Fiat currency only holds value as long as the currency has confidence since it has no tangible exchange as a backing. This is where I disagree with "debt does not matter" be it private or public. The perception of to much debt hurts currency confidence and when that confidence is lost the currency no longer holds value. This is the greatest threat to the US dollar imo and why we must keep debt in check.
    i agree in that respect.

    when debt continues to rise and government seeks avoid the argument and preach it does not matter, over time people l will lose confidence in the government, its currency and then comes its downfall.

    the idea of debt does not matter is a tactic to fool people into believing government can spend money on what it wants, that it can continually shell out cash to Citizens, economic entities, as well as foreign entities and call it investments.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    ... you don't think education facilitates future productivity...? Lol... that IS hilarious, but not because of why you seem to think.
    i know thats not a federal power and the dept of education should be closed.

    please point to the part of the constitution where government has delegated powers for education

    but no...i know you not going to do that because you cant, its not possible, government was never to be involved in the lives liberty or property of the people

    and education by the federal government should end now!

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Fishking View Post
    That didn't refute anything I said. Fact: Democrats and Obama wanted to spend more. Fact: Republicans fought it. Fact: Sequestration was the result.
    Yes, because Conservatives wouldn't agree to revenue increases. Hard to see how cutting spending in any regard helps the economy.



    That's not factually true. I mean, you're not even getting the difference between deficit and debt correct.
    I think it's obvious he meant that Bush added $6T to the debt. And yes, he was handed trillion-dollar deficits and an economy that was falling apart. He recovered the economy without one single Republican vote. Why? Because Conservatives are party-before-country. Always.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    please point to the part of the constitution where government has delegated powers for education
    General welfare clause. Can you point to the part of the Constitution where government does not have those delegated powers?


    i know thats not a federal power and the dept of education should be closed.
    What you know and what is reality seem to be in contradiction to one another. So if the DoE is to be shuttered, what's to be done about student loans and Pell Grants?


    ut no...i know you not going to do that because you cant, its not possible, government was never to be involved in the lives liberty or property of the people
    That's awfully presumptuous and arrogant. How is government involved in your life that it's causing you so much heartache?


    and education by the federal government should end now!
    It never started. The DoE doesn't employ a single teacher. The DoE doesn't run a single school. Apart from student loans, standardized testing, and grants, the DoE does very little else.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    i know thats not a federal power and the dept of education should be closed.

    please point to the part of the constitution where government has delegated powers for education

    but no...i know you not going to do that because you cant, its not possible, government was never to be involved in the lives liberty or property of the people

    and education by the federal government should end now!
    General welfare clause.

    Boy, you made that easy!!!

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    General welfare clause. Can you point to the part of the Constitution where government does not have those delegated powers?

    ..if you had ever read the founders, they clearly contradict you.. Madison and Hamilton both state the welfare does not mean the government can give people money.

    if the federal government could give money to the people then it would have powers concerning the people and they don't, federalist 45 and 84




    What you know and what is reality seem to be in contradiction to one another. So if the DoE is to be shuttered, what's to be done about student loans and Pell Grants?

    its time to end the dept and save money, by stoping the federal government from being involved in state powers.





    That's awfully presumptuous and arrogant. How is government involved in your life that it's causing you so much heartache?


    you need to read... here you go.

    federalist 45- The powers reserved to the several States will extend to all the objects which, in the ordinary course of affairs, concern the lives, liberties, and properties of the people, and the internal order, improvement, and prosperity of the State.

    federalist 84 - But a minute detail of particular rights is certainly far less applicable to a Constitution like that under consideration, which is merely intended to regulate the general political interests of the nation, than to a constitution which has the regulation of every species of personal and private concerns. If, therefore, the loud clamors against the plan of the convention, on this score, are well founded, no epithets of reprobation will be too strong for the constitution of this State.



    It never started. The DoE doesn't employ a single teacher. The DoE doesn't run a single school. Apart from student loans, standardized testing, and grants, the DoE does very little else.
    education is a state power, the founders at the convention on sept 5 1787, made it clear the federal government will not be involved in education.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    if you had ever read the founders, they clearly contradict you.. Madison and Hamilton both state the welfare does not mean the government can give people money..[/B]
    So you're referring to the Federalist Papers, which are not law but rather editorials (some written under pseudonyms) and opinions. I find it very hard to apply 18th Century opinions to 21st Century issues. There is a lot the Founders presumed to know that they didn't. They didn't envision a time where there's instantaneous communication, commerce happening routinely across state borders, and globalization. So you can keep going back to dusty, old opinion pieces but it's hard to see how they're relevant today, given the age we live in and the progress we as a nation have made. If you're standing on principle on their behalf, then it seems to me that you really don't have a clear, thoughtful position on the matter or how we can go about modernizing 18th-Century thought.


    f the federal government could give money to the people then it would have powers concerning the people and they don't, federalist 45 and 84
    The federal government has the power to levy and collect taxes and tariffs. It is to use those taxes and tariffs to provide for the general welfare and common defense. Not sure why you continue to rely on the Federalist Papers...do you apply 18th Century logic to other aspects of your life, or just government?


    ts time to end the dept and save money, by stoping the federal government from being involved in state powers.
    So you didn't answer the question. You were very Trumpian in your response. So I'll ask again, if you shutter the DoE, what is to be done about the student loans and Pell Grants? Have you even thought about that?


    education is a state power, the founders at the convention on sept 5 1787, made it clear the federal government will not be involved in education.
    Today is 2016, not 1787. America's needs are different now than they were back then. Furthermore, clinging to opinion pieces written by just one half of the debate seems a bit of a stretch. You know why they wrote the Federalist Papers in the first place? Because they could not agree to put what's in those papers in the Constitution.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Absentglare View Post
    General welfare clause.

    Boy, you made that easy!!!
    BOY YOU MADE YOURSELF LOOK SILLY!


    POINT 1, in article 1 section 8 clause 1, it states commerce taxes shall be the power of the federal government and they shall be used to pay the debts of the u.s....welfare is not a debt, because the government did not receive any goods or services.

    POINT 2 in article 1 section 8 clause 1 it states the federal can provide the common defense and the general welfare

    article 1 section 8 clauses 1 -10 -17 -18 are the general welfare

    article 1 section 8 clauses 11-16 are the common defense

    it time you start reading our constitution instead of not knowing about it and making false claims.

    Madison proposed and defended in Federalist 41, namely, that the general welfare clause is neither a statement of ends nor a substantive grant of power. It is a mere “synonym” for the enumeration of particular powers, which are limited and wholly define its content.
    https://academic.oup.com/publius/art...al-Welfare-the
    Last edited by Master PO; 01-11-17 at 03:57 PM.

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    So you're referring to the Federalist Papers, which are not law but rather editorials (some written under pseudonyms) and opinions. I find it very hard to apply 18th Century opinions to 21st Century issues. There is a lot the Founders presumed to know that they didn't. They didn't envision a time where there's instantaneous communication, commerce happening routinely across state borders, and globalization. So you can keep going back to dusty, old opinion pieces but it's hard to see how they're relevant today, given the age we live in and the progress we as a nation have made. If you're standing on principle on their behalf, then it seems to me that you really don't have a clear, thoughtful position on the matter or how we can go about modernizing 18th-Century thought.

    this is a deflection.!




    The federal government has the power to levy and collect taxes and tariffs. It is to use those taxes and tariffs to provide for the general welfare and common defense. Not sure why you continue to rely on the Federalist Papers...do you apply 18th Century logic to other aspects of your life, or just government?

    it sure does, and those powers do not include being involved in the peoples lives liberty or property




    So you didn't answer the question. You were very Trumpian in your response. So I'll ask again, if you shutter the DoE, what is to be done about the student loans and Pell Grants? Have you even thought about that?

    what does trump have to do with this...nothing!...is this you idea of a red herring?



    Today is 2016, not 1787. America's needs are different now than they were back then. Furthermore, clinging to opinion pieces written by just one half of the debate seems a bit of a stretch. You know why they wrote the Federalist Papers in the first place? Because they could not agree to put what's in those papers in the Constitution.
    another deflection becuase you cant answer

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    Re: Reverand Paul gives a sermon on the Book of Fiscal Conservatism

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    this is a deflection.!
    How so? Relying on the Federalist Papers is like relying on an Op-Ed. They're also only one half of the debate. They wrote those papers (some under pseudonyms) specifically because the Founders couldn't agree on putting that stuff in the Constitution. Relying on the Federalist Papers is deflection.


    it sure does, and those powers do not include being involved in the peoples lives liberty or property
    To what degree? And do you apply 18th Century logic to your daily life? Do you treat cancer with leeches or get around in a horse and buggy?


    what does trump have to do with this...nothing!...is this you idea of a red herring?
    I called your response "Trumpian" because you avoided the question. So I'll ask again; if you shutter the DoE, what is to be done about student loans, Pell Grants, and standardized testing?


    another deflection becuase you cant answer
    LOL! I think you've been stymied here. Did it burst your bubble to learn the Federalist Papers aren't, in fact, the law?

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