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Total taxation in the US is one of the lowest in the developed world

Gimmesometruth said:
For someone who supposedly has a Ivy League education, bought and paid for by his 1% family, I have no idea how they can miss the point that they brought up that was directly addressed, by diverting to this non-sequitur...unless of course they need to change the topic.
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For someone who apparently is upset that he doesn't have such an education nor a family that worked hard for generations, you sure don't understand the fact that your existence is not a just claim on the wealth of others and the federal government was never intended to be a mechanism to redistribute wealth in order to buy votes
 
Gimmesometruth said:
If there was not a debate, then I could not have lost......hurr durr.

You can't even see your own incongruity.
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Typical liberal. Say a few hurr durr's and other bullying tactics, throw in a few name callings for good measure, and then claim you won the debate.
 
TurtleDude said:
For someone who apparently is upset that he doesn't have such an education nor a family that worked hard for generations, you sure don't understand the fact that your existence is not a just claim on the wealth of others and the federal government was never intended to be a mechanism to redistribute wealth in order to buy votes
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This is just stupid empty rhetoric employed by those who have wealth blurt out when confronted by the fact that the US "system" has benefited them to an ever greater degree since the end of the 30 great years, when everyone saw equal levels of wealth gains, that ended @ 1980. They have to divert away from their gains with claims of "jealousy" when the simple fact is shown that the top are raking it in, that economic mobility is in decline....and their answer to this is to argue for even lower taxation on them as if it will cause greater gains for the bottom. We see the results today....well those of us who actually have an interest in equality and democracy. Those interested in republics and oligarchy will keep trying to sell trickle down as a viable argument while the foundations of what caused their massive wealth gains in the first place crumble. They will never comprehend that unregulated profit seeking is self destructive.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
This is just stupid empty rhetoric employed by those who have wealth blurt out when confronted by the fact that the US "system" has benefited them to an ever greater degree since the end of the 30 great years, when everyone saw equal levels of wealth gains, that ended @ 1980. They have to divert away from their gains with claims of "jealousy" when the simple fact is shown that the top are raking it in, that economic mobility is in decline....and their answer to this is to argue for even lower taxation on them as if it will cause greater gains for the bottom. We see the results today....well those of us who actually have an interest in equality and democracy. Those interested in republics and oligarchy will keep trying to sell trickle down as a viable argument while the foundations of what caused their massive wealth gains in the first place crumble. They will never comprehend that unregulated profit seeking is self destructive.
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The jealousy is eating you alive. It is unhealthy to be so jealous of others.
 
Moderate Right said:
The jealousy is eating you alive. It is unhealthy to be so jealous of others.
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Simple minds need to reduce complicated concepts into terms they can swallow. To change "democracy and equality" to "jealousy" is beyond pathetic.
 
SouthernDemocrat said:
So what do u mean by that? Kick millions off of Medicare? Slash Social Security? Cut the Defense Budget by half or more? Because that is what it would take.
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It's really quite clear, if one knows, what a public good is and it's implications.

Or do you mean it is new to you?
 
Gimmesometruth said:
This is just stupid empty rhetoric employed by those who have wealth blurt out when confronted by the fact that the US "system" has benefited them to an ever greater degree since the end of the 30 great years, when everyone saw equal levels of wealth gains, that ended @ 1980. They have to divert away from their gains with claims of "jealousy" when the simple fact is shown that the top are raking it in, that economic mobility is in decline....and their answer to this is to argue for even lower taxation on them as if it will cause greater gains for the bottom. We see the results today....well those of us who actually have an interest in equality and democracy. Those interested in republics and oligarchy will keep trying to sell trickle down as a viable argument while the foundations of what caused their massive wealth gains in the first place crumble. They will never comprehend that unregulated profit seeking is self destructive.
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Do you know NOTHING of world history?

After WW2, America was THE ONLY economic power in the free world. Britain and France were flat broke. Japan and Germany were almost completely destroyed. And China and Russia were communist.

This '30 great years' you wax poetic about had NOTHING to do with big government spending or anything else but one thing...America had a near-total economic monopoly on the rest of the free world.
Heck, food rationing in Great Britain did not completely end until 1954.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Post-Second_World_War

During that 30 years, america would have to have deliberately screwed up to not do INCREDIBLY well during that time as they had a near-total monopoly. But by 1980, the other countries finally had rebuild their economies to a strong enough point to begin to take on America.

Your '30 great years' Liberal fantasy is just that. It has nothing to do with politics and almost everything to do with the fact that WW2 had destroyed/decimated the economies of every major economic nation EXCEPT America's.
 
DA60 said:
Do you know NOTHING of world history?

After WW2, America was THE ONLY economic power in the free world. Britain and France were flat broke. Japan and Germany were almost completely destroyed. And China and Russia were communist.

This '30 great years' you wax poetic about had NOTHING to do with big government spending or anything else but one thing...America had a near-total economic monopoly on the rest of the free world.
Heck, food rationing in Great Britain did not completely end until 1954.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Post-Second_World_War

During that 30 years, america would have to have deliberately screwed up to not do INCREDIBLY well during that time as they had a near-total monopoly. But by 1980, the other countries finally had rebuild their economies to a strong enough point to begin to take on America.

Your '30 great years' Liberal fantasy is just that. It has nothing to do with politics and almost everything to do with the fact that WW2 had destroyed/decimated the economies of every major economic nation EXCEPT America's.
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And as per usual, you don't pick up a quote that was directed to you previously, you pick up a quote directed towards someone else (which is AMAZING since I am supposedly on ignore!), while you juggle 2 completely different concepts and conflate!!!

The point was that during the 45-75 period, marginal taxes were high, fiscal spending was high, union membership was high, and broad based wage income gains were shared as a result of POLICY in the US. Yer insinuating that this was caused by exports....it wasn't....because as explained to you time and again, those cratered other nations COULD NOT PURCHASE OUR EXPORTS......our gains were nearly all from DOMESTIC CONSUMPTION.
 
Lafayette said:
You are, of course, speaking on behalf of the "Left" (whoever/whatever that is)?

The upper-income Net Worth as shown in the infographic pie-chart belongs not ONLY to politicians and bureaucrats - but a whole cast of people who derive their Income from a variety of sources.

You should know better ...

NB:
*In fact, the point not mentioned but that should be underscored is the "perpetuation" of the Net Worth that is generated. It is obvious that beyond the three Lamborghinis and four mansions on four continents (that one visits only once a year) it is impossible to "use up" all those megabucks.
*So, with our limp Inheritance Taxation, the money flows down the dynasty from offspring inheritor to inheritor to inheritor. Meaning what?
*That we (as a nation) have regressed to the point we were in 1776 when we conspired against the British monarch who was plundering the colonies in order to maintain his regency in England. We have our own regency today, but there is no figurehead King, no Dukes, and no Lords. Just those who profit from the economy, typically by very low taxation put in place by Reckless Ronnie in 1981 upon entering the White House. (All economic data show how the Wealth increased dramatically during the 1980s, but only a certain upper-class of individuals.)
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Somehow we have reached the point where its greedy to want to keep your own money and somehow it is not greedy to take it away from some people and give it to others.

That's why conventional wisdom isn't always the best thing to listen to.
 
gimmesometruth said:
and as per usual, you don't pick up a quote that was directed to you previously, you pick up a quote directed towards someone else (which is amazing since i am supposedly on ignore!), while you juggle 2 completely different concepts and conflate!!!

The point was that during the 45-75 period, marginal taxes were high, fiscal spending was high, union membership was high, and broad based wage income gains were shared as a result of policy in the us. Yer insinuating that this was caused by exports....it wasn't....because as explained to you time and again, those cratered other nations could not purchase our exports......our gains were nearly all from domestic consumption.
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there was no manufacturing competition.........
 
Lafayette said:
The caption is best understood by this infographic from the Tax Policy Center:
3.1.4-figure1.png



Which means quite simply that (due to a ridiculous flat-rate taxation of top revenues) more Income escapes taxation and moves upwards to build the Wealth of a comparatively select few (from here):

Net_worth_and_financial_wealth.gif


My Point: Is this the sort of nation you want for your children, and your children's children? One where the far greater share of the Wealth-pie (that we all work to generate in our economy) goes to an aberrationally minuscule percentage of American families?

Well, it is the one they have now and will be getting in the future as well ...
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Let's put the the government in control of all of the wealth. What could wrong?
 
OpportunityCost said:
Somehow we have reached the point where its greedy to want to keep your own money and somehow it is not greedy to take it away from some people and give it to others.

That's why conventional wisdom isn't always the best thing to listen to.
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"it is a sin directly against one's neighbor, since one man cannot over-abound in external riches, without another man lacking them... it is a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, inasmuch as man contemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things."
 
Gimmesometruth said:
"it is a sin directly against one's neighbor, since one man cannot over-abound in external riches, without another man lacking them... it is a sin against God, just as all mortal sins, inasmuch as man contemns things eternal for the sake of temporal things."
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That's why there is charity. Taxation is not charity. Its greedy on both sides, but I guess its too much to expect you to get that.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
With FICA payroll taxes at 15.3% it is hard to believe that all other US (federal, state and local) taxation (on income, sales, excise and property) total less than 9%. Of course, if we pretend that only some US taxes count yet all foreign nation's taxes count then you get a very skewed picture of comparative taxation.
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Good point.

I wonder what they count as taxation?
 
OpportunityCost said:
That's why there is charity. Taxation is not charity. Its greedy on both sides, but I guess its too much to expect you to get that.
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You have no concept of "greed" if you equate it to taxation. This is just libertarian idiocy posing as an argument.
 
Did they include regulations because regulations are hidden taxes.
 
vesper said:
Did they include regulations because regulations are hidden taxes.
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Yeah...great point...because everyone knows....Denmark is a LOWER regulated market...than the US.

frigging....wow!
 
Lafayette said:
The caption is best understood by this infographic from the Tax Policy Center:
3.1.4-figure1.png



Which means quite simply that (due to a ridiculous flat-rate taxation of top revenues) more Income escapes taxation and moves upwards to build the Wealth of a comparatively select few (from here):

Net_worth_and_financial_wealth.gif


My Point: Is this the sort of nation you want for your children, and your children's children? One where the far greater share of the Wealth-pie (that we all work to generate in our economy) goes to an aberrationally minuscule percentage of American families?

Well, it is the one they have now and will be getting in the future as well ...
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can you source the extracted data for us please?

There is definitely something wrong with it. I can't quite place my finger on it, so I would like to see the source data.

Or, at lest point us to the blogger pundit site you lifted it from.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Yeah...great point...because everyone knows....Denmark is a LOWER regulated market...than the US.

frigging....wow!
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Regulations (hidden taxation) on companies and corporations in the U.S. are much different than that little speck called Denmark. For example regulations (hidden taxation) and taxation in general is applied at the state level as well as the federal level in the U.S.. Now to ask a question did they include all the hidden taxes is a fair question.
 
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Gimmesometruth said:
Shrug....our broad based wealth gains....was not dependent...on foreign "manufacturing competition", it is a non-sequitur to the point.
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American consumers bought American goods, almost 100%. A growing American market meant more American goods bought. You only want to see your argument and are blind to the implications of mine.
 
vesper said:
Regulations (hidden taxation) on companies and corporations in the U.S. are much different than that little speck called Denmark. For example regulations (hidden taxation) and taxation in general is applied at the state level as well as the federal level in the U.S.. Now to ask a question did they include all the hidden taxes is a fair question.
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Uh, the data is based on PERCENTAGE OF THE ECONOMY, hence yer nominal argument is nullified.

Second, yer libertarian "hidden" argument is completely SUBJECTIVE, not QUANTIFIABLE, ergo...typical BS.
 
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