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It is who you give the tax cuts to![W:260]

independentusa

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The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.

That's rather a lot of supposing there.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Well, it's worth a shot. And with all the new faces in Congress and a loose cannon in the oval office, this is probably the best chance we have of getting legislation like this through - asides from the Senate, our representatives are currently beholden to surprisingly few special interest groups.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.

Interestingly, Moody's did an analysis on what the wealthy do with their tax cuts and -surprise- they don't spend them, contrary to what Conservatives say about trickle-down.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.

The poor and middle class now pay the lowest burden in federal income taxes in decades. In fact, for many.. they get more money out than they put in.. from the EITC.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The poor and middle class now pay the lowest burden in federal income taxes in decades. In fact, for many.. they get more money out than they put in.. from the EITC.

So what? That low federal burden (thanks to tax cuts) did nothing to raise wages. So great, their tax burden is low...too bad their wages haven't grown in 35 years.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

So what? That low federal burden (thanks to tax cuts) did nothing to raise wages. So great, their tax burden is low...too bad their wages haven't grown in 35 years.

Exactly.. so how is focusing tax cuts on people that already pay little to no income tax going to improve things for them.?
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Exactly.. so how is focusing tax cuts on people that already pay little to no income tax going to improve things for them.?

I don't support cutting taxes. Period.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

So what? That low federal burden (thanks to tax cuts) did nothing to raise wages. So great, their tax burden is low...too bad their wages haven't grown in 35 years.

It was the anti-business climate which forced the higher paying jobs out of the country. We need to create a business friendly atmosphere to bring the manufacturing jobs back or at least plug the holes in the dike to stop the bleeding.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The Committee on Ways and Means is the chief tax-writing committee of the United States House of Representatives. Members of the Ways and Means Committee are not allowed to serve on any other House Committee unless they apply for a waiver from their party's congressional leadership.

who creates the tax laws?
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.

You're saying the recession was caused by people not buying enough stuff due to paying too much taxes?

Lets look at the numbers though. The taxes cuts were passed in 2000, and accelerated to take effect in 2003.

GDP during that time, adjusted

2001 1.0
2002 1.8
2003 2.8
2004 3.8
2005 3.3

Employment

LNS12000000_122778_1479838082644.gif
 
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Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

You're saying the recession was caused by people not buying enough stuff due to paying too much taxes?

No.

He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

No.

He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.

When the rich get tax cuts they don't bury the extra money in their back yards. That's what you liberals just don't understand.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

No.

He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.

No, what he literally said was

"The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand...So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office."

Except that according to the BEA,

Personal income rose from 8.6T to 11.4T during that time (2000 to 2006)
Personal outlays rose from 7T to 9.5T

Consumer Spending

Capture.JPG
 
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Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

2001 1.0
2002 1.8
2003 2.8
2004 3.8
2005 3.3

So no surprise, the economy starts growing once subprime lending increases. Housing is a 3x economic multiplier. Unfortunately, the housing bubble is what ultimately brought down Bush's economy.

Compare your chart with this one:

800px-U.S._Home_Ownership_and_Subprime_Origination_Share.jpg LNS12000000_122778_1479838082644.gif

Notice how the economic activity starts growing just as subprimes start getting handed out left and right? That's not a coincidence.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

No, what he literally said was

"The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand...So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office."

Except that according to the BEA,

Personal income rose from 8.6T to 11.4T during that time (2000 to 2006)
Personal outlays rose from 7T to 9.5T

Consumer Spending

View attachment 67210263
Which leaves $300B. Poor people weren't socking that money away.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

So no surprise, the economy starts growing once subprime lending increases. Housing is a 3x economic multiplier. Unfortunately, the housing bubble is what ultimately brought down Bush's economy.

Compare your chart with this one:

View attachment 67210268 View attachment 67210269

Notice how the economic activity starts growing just as subprimes start getting handed out left and right? That's not a coincidence.

That doesnt mean its the cause, no more than you can directly link the 2001/3 tax cuts as a cause of anything, which was the point of the op.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

That doesnt mean its the cause, no more than you can directly link the 2001/3 tax cuts as a cause of anything, which was the point of the op.

Well, Bush linked his tax cuts to the mortgage bubble while campaigning in 2004. He said the strong housing market was proof the tax cuts worked. Of course, we all know now that was a lie, but whatever. It doesn't matter at this point. Bush used one bad policy (deregulated housing) to cover for another (The Bush Tax Cuts). Both were failures.

From the link (Fox News):

Touting his tax cuts as the economy's savior — and pointing to the strong housing market as proof — Bush said "more people own their own home now than ever."
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Which leaves $300B. Poor people weren't socking that money away.

Sent from my SM-G360V using Tapatalk

Maybe, but that wasnt the point. The op claimed not giving the lower incomes more tax cut led to lower demand. It didnt obviously. Demand was up, GDP was up, jobs were up. Furthermore the greater amount of money DID go to the lower income, though it was distributed among more people. 2/3 of the tax savings went to the bottom 99%, iirc. This makes sense, given they pay a smaller share of income tax than the top 1%. You can only cut the bottom 99% income tax so far.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Well, Bush linked his tax cuts to the mortgage bubble while campaigning in 2004. He said the strong housing market was proof the tax cuts worked. Of course, we all know now that was a lie, but whatever. It doesn't matter at this point. Bush used one bad policy (deregulated housing) to cover for another (The Bush Tax Cuts). Both were failures.

From the link (Fox News):

Its not a lie if he believes it.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Give Everyone a Taxes cut by going to a Flat or Consumption tax and learning to stick to a Balanced Budget.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Its not a lie if he believes it.

No, it's a lie...and if he believes it, that makes him stupid too.

So he's a stupid liar, and that's the defense you're using? Yeesh.
 
Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Considering the fact that 'the poor' do not pay taxes and that in fact most of the poor already get free money back from the fed in the form of EIC, your position starts with a fair amount of fail.

Now...what is the purpose of tax cuts? Is it just so you have more money? No...not really. The purpose of a tax cut is to stimulate economic growth. Sorry...but the massive Obama tax cuts did nothing for the poor. 1-it merely extended the Bush tax cuts. 2-it provided a grand total of an increase of 120 million in consumer spending. Whoa! 120 million...thats a lot...right? Umm...no. With 100 million workers in the workforce thats like an extra big gulp. 3-The tax cut...the OBAMA TAX CUT...provided 55 BILLION in CORPORATE tax benefits. Why would Obama do such a thing? To stimulate growth.

Tax cuts for people that dont pay taxes dont really make much sense. They SOUND good politically...but they arent effective.
 
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Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

Now...what is the purpose of tax cuts? Is it just so you have more money? No...not really. The purpose of a tax cut is to stimulate economic growth.

No. The purpose of tax cuts is to manufacture deficits in order to gut the social safety net so it can be sold off to private interests.

Tax cuts do not stimulate economic growth. They never have and they never will.

And those Bush Tax Cuts were responsible for the Housing Bubble and subsequent collapse. Bush even campaigned on that connection in 2004 when he tied his tax cut policy to the record level of home ownership.
 
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