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Thread: It is who you give the tax cuts to![W:260]

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    The Committee on Ways and Means is the chief tax-writing committee of the United States House of Representatives. Members of the Ways and Means Committee are not allowed to serve on any other House Committee unless they apply for a waiver from their party's congressional leadership.

    who creates the tax laws?

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by independentusa View Post
    The Bush tax cuts should have been focused on the poor and the middle income eaners, but a great portion went to the wealthy. These cuts did little to help the economy. We are a consumer driven economy. Where the wealthy may have invested most or all of the tax relief they got from the Bush tax cuts, where they invested it wasn't in the US. The poor and the middle income wage earners spent most or all of what they received. The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand, something very important in a consumer driven economy. So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office. People complain about the slow growth of the economy since Obama came into office. Without an increase in the poor and middle income earners purchasing power or/and an increase in real wages, economic growth may remain slow. The last few months we have seen a growth in real income. Now if Trump and the GOP aim their tax cuts at the poor and middle income earners, we may stimulate the economy and see really good growth numbers. If we just give more money to the wealthy all we will do is increase the deficit.
    You're saying the recession was caused by people not buying enough stuff due to paying too much taxes?

    Lets look at the numbers though. The taxes cuts were passed in 2000, and accelerated to take effect in 2003.

    GDP during that time, adjusted

    2001 1.0
    2002 1.8
    2003 2.8
    2004 3.8
    2005 3.3

    Employment

    LNS12000000_122778_1479838082644.gif
    Last edited by jonny5; 11-22-16 at 02:11 PM.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    You're saying the recession was caused by people not buying enough stuff due to paying too much taxes?
    No.

    He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.
    I'm not going to chase you while you run around with the goalpost in your arms.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    No.

    He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.
    When the rich get tax cuts they don't bury the extra money in their back yards. That's what you liberals just don't understand.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    No.

    He's saying that the tax cuts went mostly to people that wouldn't spend that money in this country, and therefore didn't do much to help our economy.
    No, what he literally said was

    "The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand...So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office."

    Except that according to the BEA,

    Personal income rose from 8.6T to 11.4T during that time (2000 to 2006)
    Personal outlays rose from 7T to 9.5T

    Consumer Spending

    Capture.JPG
    Last edited by jonny5; 11-23-16 at 09:18 AM.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    2001 1.0
    2002 1.8
    2003 2.8
    2004 3.8
    2005 3.3
    So no surprise, the economy starts growing once subprime lending increases. Housing is a 3x economic multiplier. Unfortunately, the housing bubble is what ultimately brought down Bush's economy.

    Compare your chart with this one:

    800px-U.S._Home_Ownership_and_Subprime_Origination_Share.jpg LNS12000000_122778_1479838082644.gif

    Notice how the economic activity starts growing just as subprimes start getting handed out left and right? That's not a coincidence.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    No, what he literally said was

    "The problem was the little they got individually from the tax cuts on top of stagnent wages actually hurt the economy by limiting demand...So much so that we were almost in a depression when Obama got into office."

    Except that according to the BEA,

    Personal income rose from 8.6T to 11.4T during that time (2000 to 2006)
    Personal outlays rose from 7T to 9.5T

    Consumer Spending

    Capture.JPG
    Which leaves $300B. Poor people weren't socking that money away.

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    I'm not going to chase you while you run around with the goalpost in your arms.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by Incisor View Post
    So no surprise, the economy starts growing once subprime lending increases. Housing is a 3x economic multiplier. Unfortunately, the housing bubble is what ultimately brought down Bush's economy.

    Compare your chart with this one:

    800px-U.S._Home_Ownership_and_Subprime_Origination_Share.jpg LNS12000000_122778_1479838082644.gif

    Notice how the economic activity starts growing just as subprimes start getting handed out left and right? That's not a coincidence.
    That doesnt mean its the cause, no more than you can directly link the 2001/3 tax cuts as a cause of anything, which was the point of the op.

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    That doesnt mean its the cause, no more than you can directly link the 2001/3 tax cuts as a cause of anything, which was the point of the op.
    Well, Bush linked his tax cuts to the mortgage bubble while campaigning in 2004. He said the strong housing market was proof the tax cuts worked. Of course, we all know now that was a lie, but whatever. It doesn't matter at this point. Bush used one bad policy (deregulated housing) to cover for another (The Bush Tax Cuts). Both were failures.

    From the link (Fox News):

    Touting his tax cuts as the economy's savior — and pointing to the strong housing market as proof — Bush said "more people own their own home now than ever."

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    Re: It is who you give the tax cuts to!

    Quote Originally Posted by Critter7r View Post
    Which leaves $300B. Poor people weren't socking that money away.

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    Maybe, but that wasnt the point. The op claimed not giving the lower incomes more tax cut led to lower demand. It didnt obviously. Demand was up, GDP was up, jobs were up. Furthermore the greater amount of money DID go to the lower income, though it was distributed among more people. 2/3 of the tax savings went to the bottom 99%, iirc. This makes sense, given they pay a smaller share of income tax than the top 1%. You can only cut the bottom 99% income tax so far.

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