Kansas Conservative Economics So Bad They're Hiding the Stats

mmi · Oct 26, 2016

thinkagain said:
the 150 Billion left was Obama - Mostly stimulus spending related to the Bush Crash.

thinkagain said:
Not that one even needs a source as the calculation for the 2009 deficit is mostly basic math.

CBO projected a $1.2 trillion deficit in Jan 2009. I figure it makes sense to say that Obummer added $200B to avoid a worldwide depression.

thinkagain · Oct 26, 2016

mmi said:
CBO projected a $1.2 trillion deficit in Jan 2009. I figure it makes sense to say that Obummer added $200B to avoid a worldwide depression.

Pinning that much on Obama is actually being generous to the hoards of illiterate and mathematically challenged Republicans who have been trying to claim the entire 2009 Bush deficit is somehow Obama's fault.

.... and I do not even like Obama.

mmi · Oct 26, 2016

thinkagain said:
I do not even like Obama.

My living room walls are covered with pictures of him and his wonderful family. I was something like eleventh in line at my local precinct to vote for him in 2008 — a vote I'd waited fifty years to cast, ever since I had to watch Bob Kennedy lying on that hotel kitchen floor in LA with a bullet in his head.

thinkagain · Oct 27, 2016

mmi said:
My living room walls are covered with pictures of him and his wonderful family. I was something like eleventh in line at my local precinct to vote for him in 2008 — a vote I'd waited fifty years to cast, ever since I had to watch Bob Kennedy lying on that hotel kitchen floor in LA with a bullet in his head.

Hope and Change turned out to be status quo and more of the same.

mmi · Oct 27, 2016

thinkagain said:
Hope and Change turned out to be status quo and more of the same.

He got us out of a terrible economic mess, and I'm hoping he set the stage for a lot more progress. You'll agree that, contrary to what some believe, he's not a dictator. I like to think he set a very good example for Americans and for the rest of the world. I see Clinton45 as more of a status quo type.

Glen Contrarian · Oct 27, 2016

mmi said:
He got us out of a terrible economic mess, and I'm hoping he set the stage for a lot more progress. You'll agree that, contrary to what some believe, he's not a dictator. I like to think he set a very good example for Americans and for the rest of the world. I see Clinton45 as more of a status quo type.

Trying to tell them that Obama did anything right ever is like telling the North Koreans that neither we nor our allies want to invade them. Like the North Koreans who hear only what their government tells them, the Right has restricted itself to right-wing media, and so will hear everything bad (whether true or not) about Obama...but they will hear nothing good...and so they think he's a Kenyan Muslim tyrant bent on tearing down America.

thinkagain · Oct 27, 2016

mmi said:
He got us out of a terrible economic mess, and I'm hoping he set the stage for a lot more progress. You'll agree that, contrary to what some believe, he's not a dictator. I like to think he set a very good example for Americans and for the rest of the world. I see Clinton45 as more of a status quo type.

That is the one thing I will give Obama credit for. He did inherit a big economic mess.

Other than that ... he continued lockstep with the Bush policy of trampling on individual rights and freedoms and moving towards a quazi totalitarian police state. Transparency is at an all time low and punishment of those who report illegal Gov't activities has increased while the offenders go unpunished.

Obama has continued a neocon foreign policy. He armed extremist Islamists ( Al Qaeda/Al Nusra, Islamic Front and others of the same ilk) in Syria (in conjunction with Saud, Turkey and others) which created the worst humanitarian crisis so far this decade, the refugee crisis and the modern incarnation of ISIS.

Obama has continued to support the Oligopolies and destroy free and fair markets using regulation to reduce competition. Regulation and tax law is turning the worker into an indentured slave.

joG · Oct 27, 2016

late said:
Depends, there are great publics and crap privates.

The problem is I don't see a way to turn a state U private. It takes time to build a donor base, they wouldn't have it.

You are right that the travers to private would be less than simple. I have folliwed a number of new private schools and universities founding and growth, but connot think of a public university being sold. That does not make the historically grown structure more rational, however.

joG · Oct 27, 2016

iguanaman said:
Forced to pay what? Taxes? Most likely she doesn't make enough to pay taxes. If she does her taxes won't go up to pay for College.

What do you think pays for public schools and universities other than taxes?

FieldTheorist · Oct 27, 2016

jpn said:
Kansas Ends Bad Economic News by Not Reporting It

The conservative Republican promise is always that we're just a few massive tax cuts away from economic nirvana. Don't fall for it. It's just their greed talking.

Jesus, it's almost as if when you institute neoliberal economic policies into real world economies, it totally implodes the whole system.

late · Oct 27, 2016

joG said:
You are right that the travers to private would be less than simple. I have folliwed a number of new private schools and universities founding and growth, but connot think of a public university being sold. That does not make the historically grown structure more rational, however.

Jefferson was a genius, you need to make a case that he was wrong, and good luck with that.

late · Oct 27, 2016

FieldTheorist said:
Jesus, it's almost as if when you institute neoliberal economic policies into real world economies, it totally implodes the whole system.

Not almost, it's guaranteed.

joG · Oct 27, 2016

late said:
Jefferson was a genius, you need to make a case that he was wrong, and good luck with that.

What do you mean?

reinoe · Oct 27, 2016

Critter7r said:
It DOES!! But there are limits to how much private sector investment can be spurred in the absence of new demand.

There is no benefit in increased investment if demand doesn't increase because of it. Investing for the sake of investing doesn't yield profit if there is no increase in demand caused by that investment. And an investment doesn't automatically mean there will be an increase in demand.

Yep. That's why companies are hoarding record amounts of cash: Americans are too poor to buy the products.

reinoe · Oct 27, 2016

iguanaman said:
We don't understand why you keeping beating a dead horse, supply side has been a disaster for the middle class and without them economic growth will continue to stagnate.
Texas has been using oil to grow its economy, digging money out of the ground is not the same as supply side. Things are not so rosy now that oil prices have tumbled. Local debt is now second only to NY State.

Crashing oil prices decimate Texas boomtowns

California is third and New York is first. What's their excuse?

iguanaman · Oct 27, 2016

reinoe said:
California is third and New York is first. What's their excuse?

According to some here, it is because they are "librul". The question is what is Texas doing up there with those libruls?

late · Oct 27, 2016

joG said:
What do you mean?

You seem to be saying state universities are not "rational", from which I conclude you think they are a bad idea.

Which is absurd.

KLATTU · Oct 27, 2016

JohnfrmClevelan said:
In other words, supply-side economics only looks like it works when the economy is growing anyway. But they have no answers during recessions.

Wouldn't that be true of any economic theory?

When somebody comes up with an absurd binary argument that supply side or Keynesian ' doesn't work" , I usually check out of the conversation.

The notion that any economic theory is a magic bullet is a fantasy sold to the public by politicians .
Supply side is based on plain common sense-that lower taxes enable private sector growth and highter taxes inhibit it *ALL ELSE EQUAL*

late · Oct 27, 2016

KLATTU said:
Supply side is based on plain common sense

This is from the prof that taught me basic science methodology: "The only problem with most theories is that they are wrong."

JohnfrmClevelan · Oct 27, 2016

KLATTU said:
Wouldn't that be true of any economic theory?

When somebody comes up with an absurd binary argument that supply side or Keynesian ' doesn't work" , I usually check out of the conversation.

The notion that any economic theory is a magic bullet is a fantasy sold to the public by politicians .
Supply side is based on plain common sense-that lower taxes enable private sector growth and highter taxes inhibit it *ALL ELSE EQUAL*

No, it's not true of any economic theory. You can't tease increased investment out of companies when demand is down, because they are going to lose money no matter how easy you make it for them. (And for good measure, companies have always managed to increase investment in good times, no matter what kinds of "obstacles" regulations might put in their way.)

There is only one actor that will (and can) spend more during down times, and that is the government. And that is just a demand-side reality.

joG · Oct 28, 2016

late said:
You seem to be saying state universities are not "rational", from which I conclude you think they are a bad idea.

Which is absurd.

Why would you believe it absurd? It is a private good from which the individual student has by far the greatest gain. That kind of good is much better produced by private means. Doing so is much less wasteful. That the private universities are mostly better in educational quality and research is well established as well.

joG · Oct 28, 2016

late said:
You seem to be saying state universities are not "rational", from which I conclude you think they are a bad idea.

Which is absurd.

Why would you believe it absurd? It is a private good from which the individual student has by far the greatest gain. That kind of good is much better produced by private means. Doing so is much less wasteful. That the private universities are mostly better in educational quality and research is well established as well.

late · Oct 28, 2016

joG said:
Why would you believe it absurd? It is a private good from which the individual student has by far the greatest gain. That kind of good is much better produced by private means. Doing so is much less wasteful. That the private universities are mostly better in educational quality and research is well established as well.

You are making a number of assertions that are wrong or absurd or contradict traditions the country has had since Jefferson started them.

Education is a public good, one of the realities of a modern economy is that you need a lot of well educated kids. They fill a need. You really can't say private schools are better. There are great public Univ. and lousy privates.

KLATTU · Oct 28, 2016

JohnfrmClevelan said:
No, it's not true of any economic theory. You can't tease increased investment out of companies when demand is down, because they are going to lose money no matter how easy you make it for them. (And for good measure, companies have always managed to increase investment in good times, no matter what kinds of "obstacles" regulations might put in their way.)

There is only one actor that will (and can) spend more during down times, and that is the government. And that is just a demand-side reality.

I was really responding to the first part of your sentence-that supply side side only looks good when the economy is growing anyway.

But let's take a look at the rest.

"they' have no answers during recessions. Hmmmmmm. Well I wouldn't agree with that . Both The carter and Clnton recesions were followed by Tax cuts ( not ALL supply side ) which were followed by economic. I am not claiming causation, but you certainly can't rule out some causation.

You seem to imply that big government spending IS the magic bullet for a depressed economy. That is welcome news for all the all depressed economies around the world!!
It's really ahrd to use the 2009 US economy as an example because we used a heavy does of both low taxes AND big government spending.

joG · Oct 28, 2016

late said:
You are making a number of assertions that are wrong or absurd or contradict traditions the country has had since Jefferson started them.

Education is a public good, one of the realities of a modern economy is that you need a lot of well educated kids. They fill a need. You really can't say private schools are better. There are great public Univ. and lousy privates.

An acient tradition formed in a period at a different level of technology is ofttimes a poor one, when technologies progress and should be changed. That is, what modernity is about. That is, what has happened to higher, probably most other education and pensions for that matter.

And no, you are wrong. Education is not a public good. And though it is true that there are external effects, to education, that is no excuse for producing it inefficiently. That wastes tax money and expensive resources. And that is, what you are advocating.

Kansas Conservative Economics So Bad They're Hiding the Stats

mmi

thinkagain

Well-known member

mmi

thinkagain

Well-known member

mmi

Glen Contrarian

thinkagain

Well-known member

joG

joG

FieldTheorist

late

late

joG

reinoe

reinoe

iguanaman

late

KLATTU

late

JohnfrmClevelan

joG

joG

late

KLATTU

joG