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This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending[W:279]

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
That is not only wrong on every conceivable level, it is idiotic on every conceivable level. And the idea that you attempt to argue that your position is a moral one might be the greatest assault on morality I can remember. All you are doing is attempting to provide a rationalization for you robbing what belongs to others.
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So your knee jerk reaction is that this is wrong, but do you have any notions that would back that up, or is the movement of your knee a sufficient substitute for thought process?

Fletch said:
But hey, if this is what you believe, please send to me what you owe me. And if that check isn't forthcoming and equal to exactly what you owe me, I will come over your house and take it from you by force. After all, it is you who laid out the moral argument for me to do just that. I will PM you my address and a bill for what you rightfully owe me and await my check. Thanks.
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Now that you mention it, I think you have a point. Some money should change hands here. You've made it pretty clear you know little to nothing about economics, yet you have the free benefit here of reading posts like those from MMI or John C, and so are getting an education. Where I live one can easily pay $400+ for an introductory course on the subject, so use that as a guideline when cutting checks for those folks.

You can come over to my place, but you wouldn't get much money, as it all comes from...the government! So if you really wanted it, you would have to take on that institution, which would be difficult, because you are only one person. You would have to band together with other like minded citizens, and negotiate a plan that would be good for all to get what you...........wait a minute! That's socialism! People banding together for the common good? Arrrghhh.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

danielpalos said:
As a form of stimulus spending,

How would we be worse off, with a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and fourteen dollars an hour for unemployment compensation, simply for being unemployed?
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Doubling minimum wage overnight would shock the system, and create animosity between those making $7.26 - $15 per hr currently and their employers (not to mention their coworkers who just received a 107% raise that isn't based on performance).

Wouldn't happen, nor would it be a good idea.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
Doubling minimum wage overnight would shock the system, and create animosity between those making $7.26 - $15 per hr currently and their employers (not to mention their coworkers who just received a 107% raise that isn't based on performance).

Wouldn't happen, nor would it be a good idea.
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How much shock and fallout happened at gravity payments?

some on the left are betting, the fantastical right wing is just clueless and Causeless, and won't complain if they are making more and spending more in our First World economy.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

danielpalos said:
How much shock and fallout happened at gravity payments?
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The minimum wage will eventually reach $15/hr, and will get there at a faster rate if it is adjusted every year to account for inflation. Furthermore, a basic income guarantee is all but... guaranteed, as software continues to grow to the point where technological unemployment (invisioned by Keynes) renders an overwhelming majority of labor unnecessary to meet production. By then, there is going to have to be government intervention for production to maintain. Either legislation will be enacted to require a specific percentage of human labor per value of production, or every man, woman, and child will get a check from the government funded by taxes from automated production profits. The latter is preferable, imo, because even though it is a strong form of intervention, it still allows for the consumer/producer feedback mechanism to remain intact.

some on the left are betting, the fantastical right wing is just clueless and Causeless, and won't complain if they are making more and spending more in our First World economy.
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Increasing the minimum wage brings us closer to the situation i describe above.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
The minimum wage will eventually reach $15/hr, and will get there at a faster rate if it is adjusted every year to account for inflation. Furthermore, a basic income guarantee is all but... guaranteed, as software continues to grow to the point where technological unemployment (invisioned by Keynes) renders an overwhelming majority of labor unnecessary to meet production. By then, there is going to have to be government intervention for production to maintain. Either legislation will be enacted to require a specific percentage of human labor per value of production, or every man, woman, and child will get a check from the government funded by taxes from automated production profits. The latter is preferable, imo, because even though it is a strong form of intervention, it still allows for the consumer/producer feedback mechanism to remain intact.



Increasing the minimum wage brings us closer to the situation i describe above.
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With any luck the minimum wage will have gone away before it is $15.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Ganesh said:
Hmmm. So no ideas, no rebuttals to any of this, just a gut feeling, one that is better left unexplored?

If I were you, I'd wait until your train slowed for a curve, take all the sharp items out of your pockets, protect your face with your jacket, and jump. Jump and then start running. Because you may think your final station will look like '50s America, but in fact it will be more like a new Gilded Age, not as crude as the last, it will have high tech and the best spin doctors that money can buy, but it will not be comfortable for you, or anyone that doesn't have an income with plenty of zeros trailing it.
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When you can't find other peoples money to guild your greedy cage, WTH ya going to do when that's all you know?

LOL

I can't conceive of a mindset that surrenders personal circumstance to the will and largess of others. Surrender and subservience are not one of my personality traits.

ProgLibs should come up with a better meme than this '50 blather you've been trained to regurgitate.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

joG said:
With any luck the minimum wage will have gone away before it is $15.
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Not going to happen.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
True enough. At that time, other manufacturing nations were in full rebuild after war decimated their productive capacity, while U.S. productive capacity remained untouched. American manufacturing, aided by unparalleled capital investment to support its war machine, was retooled to meet the post war global demand. American reconstruction efforts in Europe and Asia were extremely beneficial to exporters.

In order for the U.S. to remain a global economic powerhouse, we have to harness our competitive capacity... low-skill/low-wage manufacturing is never coming back. The developing world has a labor cost advantage that can never be dissuaded without invoking negative ramifications that do far more harm than good.
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The US will never achieve any long term growth and success by servicing other peoples products. The globalist agenda is a socialist power grab by nations eager to bleed the US dry.

We are on the cusp of a new industrial revolution involving energy, technology, and transportation, and globalists want to insure the US does not benefit, nor participate to any substantial degree.

That is the reality buried behind platitudes and fairy tails.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
When you can't find other peoples money to guild your greedy cage, WTH ya going to do when that's all you know?

LOL

I can't conceive of a mindset that surrenders personal circumstance to the will and largess of others. Surrender and subservience are not one of my personality traits.

ProgLibs should come up with a better meme than this '50 blather you've been trained to regurgitate.
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Labor intensive manufacturing is never coming back. That train has left the station! :lol:

Any manufacturing growth will be accompanied by automation. You seem to believe that it is in the best interest of the U.S. to compete with Vietnam and Malaysia in labor costs. It seems you've drank the cool-aid and are just upset as you watch your ideology fall by the wayside.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
Labor intensive manufacturing is never coming back. That train has left the station! :lol:

Any manufacturing growth will be accompanied by automation. You seem to believe that it is in the best interest of the U.S. to compete with Vietnam and Malaysia in labor costs. It seems you've drank the cool-aid and are just upset as you watch your ideology fall by the wayside.
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LOL

I love how you qualify everything you post. "Labor intensive" manufacturing....... WTH does that mean?

Have you ever sourced products from Vietnam, or Malaysia?

Keep pounding away on the key board, it's quite revealing.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
The US will never achieve any long term growth and success by servicing other peoples products.
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Are you claiming the U.S. doesn't manufacture more than any other time in its history?

The globalist agenda is a socialist power grab by nations eager to bleed the US dry.
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It doesn't make economic sense for consumers to purchase goods at a higher price.

We are on the cusp of a new industrial revolution involving energy, technology, and transportation, and globalists want to insure the US does not benefit, nor participate to any substantial degree.
Click to expand...

We are indeed! The difference between your view and reality is that this new industrial revolution will require exponentially less human labor to meet the production demand than it did a generation ago.

That is the reality buried behind platitudes and fairy tails.
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Engineers are needed... not laborers. This is what Trumpkins fail to realize. Manufacturing employment is never coming back!

fredgraph.png


Take your conspiracy theory nonsense to the place where it belongs.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
When you can't find other peoples money to guild your greedy cage, WTH ya going to do when that's all you know?

LOL

I can't conceive of a mindset that surrenders personal circumstance to the will and largess of others. Surrender and subservience are not one of my personality traits.

ProgLibs should come up with a better meme than this '50 blather you've been trained to regurgitate.
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Yet surrender is exactly what you are advocating, whether you know it or not. When you parrot the line of the power elite in the country, you are surrendering affordable health care and education, clean energy, sustainable transportation systems, and safe communities. These are things available in large measure in comparable foreign countries, yet are problematic for the average American worker. Political sentiment is also shifted much further to the right in the US. Coincidence? Who is actually benefiting right now from this uber-right mentality? It's not the middle class, that is for sure. Definitely not the poor and destitute. There is a group at the very top that is doing well, better than their wildest dreams, for the most part. Follow the money trail Mr O. That will tell you a lot.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
Are you claiming the U.S. doesn't manufacture more than any other time in its history?



It doesn't make economic sense for consumers to purchase goods at a higher price.



We are indeed! The difference between your view and reality is that this new industrial revolution will require exponentially less human labor to meet the production demand than it did a generation ago.



Engineers are needed... not laborers. This is what Trumpkins fail to realize. Manufacturing employment is never coming back!

fredgraph.png


Take your conspiracy theory nonsense to the place where it belongs.
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Thanks for your opinion.

Get back to me when your experience matches reality.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
LOL

I love how you qualify everything you post. "Labor intensive" manufacturing....... WTH does that mean?

Have you ever sourced products from Vietnam, or Malaysia?

Keep pounding away on the key board, it's quite revealing.
Click to expand...

Automation is here to stay. The jobs that are being promised are never going to materialize.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
Thanks for your opinion.

Get back to me when your experience matches reality.
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In other words, you are out of ammunition and have bowed out of this discussion.

:2wave:
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
In other words, you are out of ammunition and have bowed out of this discussion.

:2wave:
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Not at all. You've revealed you don't posses any knowledge on the subject, so I'm acknowledging the futility of further discussion.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
Not at all. You've revealed you don't posses any knowledge on the subject, so I'm acknowledging the futility of further discussion.
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You make very bold claims yet have yet to refute my positions. When asked a question, you run away under the guise of superior knowledge, only to return with questions of your own. You are here to push your pro-Trump agenda, and nothing more. Deny automation all you want... it isn't going away.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Kushinator said:
The minimum wage will eventually reach $15/hr, and will get there at a faster rate if it is adjusted every year to account for inflation. Furthermore, a basic income guarantee is all but... guaranteed, as software continues to grow to the point where technological unemployment (invisioned by Keynes) renders an overwhelming majority of labor unnecessary to meet production. By then, there is going to have to be government intervention for production to maintain. Either legislation will be enacted to require a specific percentage of human labor per value of production, or every man, woman, and child will get a check from the government funded by taxes from automated production profits. The latter is preferable, imo, because even though it is a strong form of intervention, it still allows for the consumer/producer feedback mechanism to remain intact.



Increasing the minimum wage brings us closer to the situation i describe above.
Click to expand...

a fifteen dollar an hour minimum wage and unemployment compensation simply for being unemployed, solves simple poverty on an at-will basis.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
And you base this opinion on what experience?
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You could have the experience of looking at this analysis of future automation from the BBC, which suggests up to half of job categories today could be done by software applications in the very near future. Or, you could also look around at reality today. The largest employers today are those that utilize large numbers of very low skill employees- Wal Mart, McDonalds, Fed Ex, etc. Those are the very positions on the cusp of replacement by automation. There are two trends emerging today, and they are on a head on collision course. One is the ongoing replacement of labour in favor of capital, and the second is the insistence of the far right on maintaining a 1950s view of the world, where everyone and his dog can get a good job, or make a fortune opening some business.

BBC - Future - Will machines eventually take on every job?BBC - Future - Will machines eventually take on every job?
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

ocean515 said:
I notice you continue to avoid answering any questions, so my observation was correct.

Have a nice day.

:usflag2:
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You are attempting to deflect the discussion... because you lack a sound argument. When a poster has to resort to anecdotes on an anonymous debate forum, that says it all.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Ganesh said:
You could have the experience of looking at this analysis of future automation from the BBC, which suggests up to half of job categories today could be done by software applications in the very near future. Or, you could also look around at reality today. The largest employers today are those that utilize large numbers of very low skill employees- Wal Mart, McDonalds, Fed Ex, etc. Those are the very positions on the cusp of replacement by automation. There are two trends emerging today, and they are on a head on collision course. One is the ongoing replacement of labour in favor of capital, and the second is the insistence of the far right on maintaining a 1950s view of the world, where everyone and his dog can get a good job, or make a fortune opening some business.

BBC - Future - Will machines eventually take on every job?BBC - Future - Will machines eventually take on every job?
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So your link confirms you have no experience, and you base you claims on the BBC, or NPR.

Not to worry, I'm sure their will be some position for those who want watch robots, while the rest will be building tomorrow's energy, technology, and transportation products.

The crap coming from Malaysia and Vietnam will perhaps find buyers of people who prefer crap quality goods.
 
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