This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending[W:279]

PeteEU · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

joG said:
Trains in Japan,

Fail..big time. Trains in Japan were started by public money including the bullet train system. In fact a majority of the stocks in the train companies is still owned by... the state, even though technically it is a private company now days.

prisons in some jurisdictions

And they are an utter failure.

toll roads,

most are built by public money and then leased to private companies.

utilities in various countries,

All of which got started as public service companies.

I asked for private funded and constructed infrastructure... like building an airport.

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
Explain how this goose dies if the rich have more than you think they should. And didn't the rich get richer over the last 8 years following the very sort of plans you want to do more of?

Since the "goose" is growth, it is already quite sick but yes the rich are still getting richer like always. The trick is to get us all richer so we can spend and improve economic growth. We spent the last 8 years digging out of the hole the last President got us in and now it is time to get more improvement for the middle class. Raise minimum wage, get the rich to pay more and use the money to fund the infrastructure improvements that are so overdue creating 1000's of good paying jobs. It is really a simple plan and one that will work for a change.

Ganesh · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
This is not 2009 and infrastructure is nothing but a code word for increasing deficits and debt even more than they are now. So, infrastructure is indeed stimulus. We do not need stimulus now. I don't deny that we need expenditures on infrastructure but they need to be paid for instead of just increasing the debt. We could spend another 20 trillion dollars on infrastructure. For eight years every time Obama has wanted to increase the deficits and the debt he calls it "investing". Being anti-business he doesn't know the difference between investing and deficit spending. To him they are both one in the same.

What makes you think such items will not be paid for? You can pay for a bridge with private tolls or public taxes, and with the former you must also factor in profits. Previous experience with privatization of public endeavor has often led to profiteering and wild cost overruns. No financial Nirvana in that direction.

Some projects also provide long term benefit for society, even if the immediate hope of profit is limited, or non-existent. That highway link or commuter flight may not be attractive for a potential contractor, but overall may provide greater benefit to the community it serves. No private entity could (or would want to) make these decisions, that is within the public sphere.

These type of items are indeed investment, as they provide the framework for future growth and development.

Fletch · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Since the "goose" is growth, it is already quite sick but yes the rich are still getting richer like always. The trick is to get us all richer so we can spend and improve economic growth. We spent the last 8 years digging out of the hole the last President got us in and now it is time to get more improvement for the middle class. Raise minimum wage, get the rich to pay more and use the money to fund the infrastructure improvements that are so overdue creating 1000's of good paying jobs. It is really a simple plan and one that will work for a change.

Creating 1000's of jobs only helps 1000's of people. There are 330,000,000 people in this country. Its like pissing in the ocean in an attempt to warm it up. Plus, infrastructure spending no longer provides any real return. Roads and bridges only have an economic value if they somehow facilitate commerce. Building a road or a bridge between to cities improves commerce. Repaving it or resurfacing one that already exists does nothing but pay workers during the rebuilding process. Third world nations see economic growth from infrastructure spending, first world countries do not. Raising wages will help, but not if those increases don't keep up with the cost of goods that those increases will inevitably bring.

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
Creating 1000's of jobs only helps 1000's of people. There are 330,000,000 people in this country. Its like pissing in the ocean in an attempt to warm it up. Plus, infrastructure spending no longer provides any real return. Roads and bridges only have an economic value if they somehow facilitate commerce. Building a road or a bridge between to cities improves commerce. Repaving it or resurfacing one that already exists does nothing but pay workers during the rebuilding process. Third world nations see economic growth from infrastructure spending, first world countries do not. Raising wages will help, but not if those increases don't keep up with the cost of goods that those increases will inevitably bring.

Well at least we can see why we have fallen so far behind other nations in our infrastructure. Republicans see no reason to rebuild our electric grid, replace 100+ years old tunnels and bridges, or widen and resurface our road system or improve our mass transit. Why is this? Because there is nothing in it for them. They would rather spend the money on defense boondoggles or tax cuts for the wealthy because that is where the kickbacks and campaign contributions are. We are wise to that trick now and will not be stopped this time....or ever again for that matter.

Fletch · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Well at least we can see why we have fallen so far behind other nations in our infrastructure. Republicans see no reason to rebuild our electric grid, replace 100+ years old tunnels and bridges, or widen and resurface our road system or improve our mass transit. Why is this? Because there is nothing in it for them. They would rather spend the money on defense boondoggles or tax cuts for the wealthy because that is where the kickbacks and campaign contributions are. We are wise to that trick now and will not be stopped this time....or ever again for that matter.

Do you know how much we spend each year on infrastructure here in the US?

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
Do you know how much we spend each year on infrastructure here in the US?

Since it is at a 30 year low....not nearly enough. Thanks to Republicans with your same attitude, Federal spending on infrastructure has been cut in half to .5% of GDP and the States are also cutting.

A new report this week by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities warns that state and local spending on infrastructure – including schools and wastewater treatment plants as well as highways and bridges – is at a 30-year low. Total capital spending as a share of state GDP fell in all but five states and the District of Columbia between 2002 and 2013, with the largest drops in Nevada, Florida and Michigan.

According to the 2013 report card by the American Society of Civil Engineers, the U.S. has serious infrastructure needs of more than $3.4 trillion through 2020, including $1.7 trillion for roads, bridges and transit; $736 billion for electricity and power grids; $391 billion for schools; $134 billion for airports; and $131 billion for waterways and related projects.

As Roads Crumble, Infrastructure Spending Hits a 30-Year Low | The Fiscal Times

Critter7r · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
You obviously know nothing about accounting in any way, shape, or form. Net worth is figured by assets minus liabilities and taxes are never figured in as a liability to establish net worth. That's just the way it is.

just admit you were wrong, FFS.

To arrive at a figure of one's net worth, one would have already paid taxes on the amount left to create said net worth.

Critter7r · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
Creating 1000's of jobs only helps 1000's of people. There are 330,000,000 people in this country. Its like pissing in the ocean in an attempt to warm it up. Plus, infrastructure spending no longer provides any real return. Roads and bridges only have an economic value if they somehow facilitate commerce. Building a road or a bridge between to cities improves commerce. Repaving it or resurfacing one that already exists does nothing but pay workers during the rebuilding process. Third world nations see economic growth from infrastructure spending, first world countries do not. Raising wages will help, but not if those increases don't keep up with the cost of goods that those increases will inevitably bring.

So what I hear you saying is that we should just wait until all of our infrastructure fails - bridges and tunnels collapse, railways wash away in the rain, and roads all return to dirt - and then when we become a third world country again, and we can see economic growth from infrastructure spending, then we build stuff.

Moderate Right · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Well at least we can see why we have fallen so far behind other nations in our infrastructure. Republicans see no reason to rebuild our electric grid, replace 100+ years old tunnels and bridges, or widen and resurface our road system or improve our mass transit. Why is this? Because there is nothing in it for them. They would rather spend the money on defense boondoggles or tax cuts for the wealthy because that is where the kickbacks and campaign contributions are. We are wise to that trick now and will not be stopped this time....or ever again for that matter.

Republicans are fine with all of that as long as it is paid for and not added to our already enormous debt.

Moderate Right · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Critter7r said:
So what I hear you saying is that we should just wait until all of our infrastructure fails - bridges and tunnels collapse, railways wash away in the rain, and roads all return to dirt - and then when we become a third world country again, and we can see economic growth from infrastructure spending, then we build stuff.

What we are saying is that infrastructure spending should be paid for and not added to our 20 trillion dollar debt.

Fletch · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Since it is at a 30 year low....not nearly enough. Thanks to Republicans with your same attitude, Federal spending on infrastructure has been cut in half to .5% of GDP and the States are also cutting.

As Roads Crumble, Infrastructure Spending Hits a 30-Year Low | The Fiscal Times

That's nice. Except you didn't answer my question. "As a percent of GDP" is irrelevant. And if you need revenue for this, raise the tax on gasoline.

Fletch · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Critter7r said:
So what I hear you saying is that we should just wait until all of our infrastructure fails - bridges and tunnels collapse, railways wash away in the rain, and roads all return to dirt - and then when we become a third world country again, and we can see economic growth from infrastructure spending, then we build stuff.

That's what you got out of what I wrote? Perhaps if you don't understand what is being said, you might allow others to respond rather than interjecting yourself with nonsense.

Moderate Right · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
That's nice. Except you didn't answer my question. "As a percent of GDP" is irrelevant. And if you need revenue for this, raise the tax on gasoline.

That's the only way that the left knows how to do things, comparing them to the percentage of GDP.

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Fletch said:
That's nice. Except you didn't answer my question. "As a percent of GDP" is irrelevant. And if you need revenue for this, raise the tax on gasoline.

Again you show why we have gotten so behind in the last 30 years.....Republicans. They have shown they don't give a hoot about the future of this country and would like it to become a 3rd world nation who's people are exploited to benefit the few. The jig is up now though, enjoy your slide into oblivion.

Absentglare · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
What we are saying is that infrastructure spending should be paid for and not added to our 20 trillion dollar debt.

Adding it to our debt is one means of paying for it.

Another would be raising taxes on high earners.

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
Republicans are fine with all of that as long as it is paid for and not added to our already enormous debt.

That's why Hillary is paying for it with higher taxes on the wealthy. They can't keep socking away trillions while our nation crumbles.

Moderate Right · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Absentglare said:
Adding it to our debt is one means of paying for it.

Another would be raising taxes on high earners.

Spoken like a true liberal. You guys only think with a one track mind.

Moderate Right · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
That's why Hillary is paying for it with higher taxes on the wealthy. They can't keep socking away trillions while our nation crumbles.

If you stop to think about it, that is just another one of Hillary's lies. There is so much infrastructure spending needed you could take every dollar from the one percent and it wouldn't pay for it. Hillary wants to just add it to the debt, of which she claims she wouldn't add a penny to it, yet another lie.

Critter7r · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
If you stop to think about it, that is just another one of Hillary's lies. There is so much infrastructure spending needed you could take every dollar from the one percent and it wouldn't pay for it. Hillary wants to just add it to the debt, of which she claims she wouldn't add a penny to it, yet another lie.

I think $1,750,000,000,000 would put a nice dent in it, though.

Groogrux · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...wrong-for-us-economy-right-now-110539235.html

Lefties on here think that all times are OK for stimulus or infrastructure spending but this is clearly not the case. Inflation and interest rates are ticking up and the debt clock ticks closer to blowing up every day.

It's always time for infrastructure spending. What we need to do is put DOD spending on a diet.

Ganesh · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Moderate Right said:
Republicans are fine with all of that as long as it is paid for and not added to our already enormous debt.

You mean many on the right like to see a compatriot (or themselves) make a bundle in profit on such projects, rather than leaving them within the public sphere, which is usually a better place for them, as outlined earlier.

The US is at an historic high point in terms of national wealth, and the technical ability to enact projects such as discussed here. To say it can't be done without massive debt is absurd. The core issue here is the increasing and already huge inequality of income, due to various factors, and how that is beginning to make the US look like a third world nation. The politics of the far right would carry this trend through to completion, if allowed.

KLATTU · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Yet the top 5% have QUINTUPLED their net worth's in 35 years. There is plenty of money, just not in the right hands.

didn't they earn it?

iguanaman · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

KLATTU said:
didn't they earn it?

On the backs of their underpaid or outsourced workers and with the help of massive tax cuts that have increased our debt by trillions. It's time for them to pay their share, the massive growth of their nest eggs is unsustainable and is destabilizing our financial system.

on June 15th economists at the IMF released a study assessing the causes and consequences of rising inequality. The authors reckon that while inequality could cause all sorts of problems, governments should be especially concerned about its effects on growth. They estimate that a one percentage point increase in the income share of the top 20% will drag down growth by 0.08 percentage points over five years, while a rise in the income share of the bottom 20% actually boosts growth. But how does inequality affect economic growth rates?
More recent work suggests that inequality could lead to economic or financial instability. In a 2010 book Raghuram Rajan, now governor of the Reserve Bank of India, argued that governments often respond to inequality by easing the flow of credit to poorer households. Other recent research suggests American households borrowed heavily prior to the crisis to prop up their consumption. But for this rise in household debt, consumption would have stagnated as a result of poor wage growth. Economic eminences such as Ben Bernanke and Larry Summers argue that inequality may also contribute to the world's "savings glut", since the rich are less likely to spend an additional dollar than the poor. As savings pile up, interest rates fall, boosting asset prices, encouraging borrowing and making it more difficult for central banks to manage the economy.

The Economist explains: How inequality affects growth | The Economist

Fletch · Oct 20, 2016

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

iguanaman said:
Again you show why we have gotten so behind in the last 30 years.....Republicans. They have shown they don't give a hoot about the future of this country and would like it to become a 3rd world nation who's people are exploited to benefit the few. The jig is up now though, enjoy your slide into oblivion.

???? What the hell are you talking about? Perhaps you shouldn't post during happy hour.