• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending[W:279]

Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

I'm not so sure about that, that is what investors do - invest. Let a company build a bridge, giving lots of private sector jobs and put tolls on the bridge to pay the investors back. But, the first part of my post mentioned localities paying for infrastructure instead of the federal government, something many localities already do now. You totally ignored what I said there.

First off .. if a road or bridge is in an isolated area, and is needed for something.. then the private companies wont build it. Also one could argue, no private company would in their right mind build infrastructure and pay for it, since the profits (if any profits at all) are low and over a LONG time.

Secondly, yes localities are paying for local infrastructure.. the feds or country should however pay or help to pay for the big projects. There would be no cross country highways without federal money.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

THat is what is being pushed, any country that has the ability to add debt is being pushed to do infrastructure spending as a means to keep the global economy from crashing.

These boys and girls are desperate.

The jig is about up.




https://www.imf.org/en/News/Articles/2015/09/28/04/53/sores093014a

The "jig" is the maldistribution of income that is slowing consumer spending and GDP growth in developed nations. That leaves only Govts. with the money to spend to boost their economies. It is a band-aid that hopefully will bridge the gap between now and when policies that will boost the middle class take effect. Boosting up the incomes of the middle class is the only long term fix for slow growth. I'm afraid the wealthy have come dangerously close to killing the "golden goose" that made them rich.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

The "jig" is the maldistribution of income that is slowing consumer spending and GDP growth in developed nations. That leaves only Govts. with the money to spend to boost their economies. It is a band-aid that hopefully will bridge the gap between now and when policies that will boost the middle class take effect. Boosting up the incomes of the middle class is the only long term fix for slow growth. I'm afraid the wealthy have come dangerously close to killing the "golden goose" that made them rich.

They did, only the corpse of the global economy they created to promote their greed is still walking for the moment.

Dont expect it will take long for the final collapse.

I hope to be dead by then.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

EDIT: I live in WA State, one of the better off states economically in this era where the haves get more and the have nots get less....all the government agencies here are broke, there is no many, and as promised differed wages to state employees increasingly come due there will be even less money to go around.

America is about to hit a debt and promises wall.

There is no where nears enough money.

Yet the top 5% have QUINTUPLED their net worth's in 35 years. There is plenty of money, just not in the right hands.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Yet the top 5% have QUINTUPLED their net worth's in 35 years. There is plenty of money, just not in the right hands.

Nah, go collect all that and you still come up way sort of obligations and needs.

Plus you cant, by design, because the business activity will adjust to going someplace that will agree to tax less.

The system is bad, the money that we do have being in the wrong hands is a part of the failure of the system, but there is a lot more to it.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

I'm not so sure about that, that is what investors do - invest. Let a company build a bridge, giving lots of private sector jobs and put tolls on the bridge to pay the investors back. But, the first part of my post mentioned localities paying for infrastructure instead of the federal government, something many localities already do now. You totally ignored what I said there.

Except that is not necessarily what investors do. What they do is place their money were it gets the best return, and that does not always coincide with social interest. This is particularly true when it comes to transportation systems, were national interests may vary wildly with possible profit return expectations. It is often the case that heavily used routes will be profitable, and so attract private interest, but less used ones, or those that are unproven or peripheral to financial gain will not.

National air carriers, for example, will often be mandated by government to serve smaller communities, ones which would be abandoned without such regulation. A bridge in a big metropolis may be a money maker, but others, which may be deemed essential to public interest, may not, and would also be rejected by business interests.

Also, your notion of employment and payback make no sense. A public project would also employ "lots" in the private sector, and those that use it would pay taxes, thereby returning public "investment" with the added bonus of not having also carry the profits of a private company, which again may or may not find socially useful destinations.

By devolving such projects to local government, you are not changing the equation, other than to make them less efficient and flexible. National oversight could set larger priorities, and also a sovereign entity with its own currency would have more leeway in expenditures, thereby achieving policy goals in a more thorough fashion.

Leaving these projects to the private sector would mean many, probably most, would never get done, and it would also abandon essential policy decisions to an unwilling and unable entity.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Nah, go collect all that and you still come up way sort of obligations and needs.

Plus you cant, by design, because the business activity will adjust to going someplace that will agree to tax less.

The system is bad, the money that we do have being in the wrong hands is a part of the failure of the system, but there is a lot more to it.

Productivity, industrial efficiency, and national wealth have grown by leaps and bounds in recent years, so why would a nation not be able to build new airports, bridges, etc, now, when it could vastly expand production and industry from a much tinier base in the '30s and '40s, on an unprecedented scale?

Rebuilding the country is easy from an economic perspective, it is the relentless political spin and lobbying efforts of the rentier class that are the problem. As for business fleeing, it is doing that now, to the maximum extent possible under the law. It is the law that needs a review, but again that particular review would be one inconvenient for the said political class, and so it would be a hard sell.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...wrong-for-us-economy-right-now-110539235.html

Lefties on here think that all times are OK for stimulus or infrastructure spending but this is clearly not the case. Inflation and interest rates are ticking up and the debt clock ticks closer to blowing up every day.



What's better: borrowing on "zero" interest or borrowing on non-zero interest?

It's not just "lefties", it's economists. Obama's stimulus may have been one of the worst packages every structured, but that doesn't change the fact that we absolutely WILL have to spend TRILLIONS on infrastructure. It's been ignored, kicked down the road. It's breaking.

Do we do it now, at optimal borrowing rates?

Or do we do it later, at non-optimal borrowing rates?






Let us not labor under the delusion that somehow, the right is going to take full power and fix the country. The extent of their ideas for the last 8 years has been to say "no" to whatever Democrats say, and there doesn't appear to be the slightest reason to think that will change.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Yet the top 5% have QUINTUPLED their net worth's in 35 years. There is plenty of money, just not in the right hands.

You forget that that is pretax income. The rich pay the majority of the taxes so your figures aren't really an honest representation. You guys say we should tax the rich more then give them zero credit for paying the majority of the taxes.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

You forget that that is pretax income. The rich pay the majority of the taxes so your figures aren't really an honest representation. You guys say we should tax the rich more then give them zero credit for paying the majority of the taxes.

He said "net worth," genius.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

He said "net worth," genius.

Look genius, net worth is assets minus liabilities. It has nothing to do with taxes paid. They teach that in high school.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

You forget that that is pretax income. The rich pay the majority of the taxes so your figures aren't really an honest representation. You guys say we should tax the rich more then give them zero credit for paying the majority of the taxes.

LOL Net worth is pre-tax? More like LOW tax because it was the trillions in tax cuts that has let the top 5% amass over $40 trillion from a healthy $8 trillion in 1980. Of course those trillions in tax cuts are now sitting in our national debt but whose counting, right? As far as the wealthy paying most of the taxes, that is their fault too. Income stagnation has left much of the middle class too poor to afford taxes. If the rich want them to pay more taxes they should pay them more, they won't mind a bit.
 
Last edited:
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Look genius, net worth is assets minus liabilities. It has nothing to do with taxes paid. They teach that in high school.

Let's look at the discussion:

Yet the top 5% have QUINTUPLED their net worth's in 35 years. There is plenty of money, just not in the right hands.

To which you interject:

You forget that that is pretax income. The rich pay the majority of the taxes so your figures aren't really an honest representation. You guys say we should tax the rich more then give them zero credit for paying the majority of the taxes.

Are you ****ing series? :lol:

If it has nothing to do with taxes paid, why on earth did you make that statement?
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Look genius, net worth is assets minus liabilities. It has nothing to do with taxes paid. They teach that in high school.

Since when are taxes not liabilities? If you don't pay them aren't you LIABLE to go to jail?
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Since when are taxes not liabilities? If you don't pay them aren't you LIABLE to go to jail?

He accidentally claimed gains in net worth are taxed!

:2razz:
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/...wrong-for-us-economy-right-now-110539235.html

Lefties on here think that all times are OK for stimulus or infrastructure spending but this is clearly not the case. Inflation and interest rates are ticking up and the debt clock ticks closer to blowing up every day.

who exactly are you arguing with then you say "all times are not OK for stimulus or infrastructure spending?" It reminds me of the guy who was arguing that "Clinton didnt pay off the debt". Hey that was you!

In other words, Clinton didn't wipe the debt

Now if you fight the urge to run away, do you realize that early 2009 was the right time for a stimulus? It seemed like conservatives believed no time was the right time for a stimulus when a democrat is president.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

Since when are taxes not liabilities? If you don't pay them aren't you LIABLE to go to jail?

You obviously know nothing about accounting in any way, shape, or form. Net worth is figured by assets minus liabilities and taxes are never figured in as a liability to establish net worth. That's just the way it is.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

who exactly are you arguing with then you say "all times are not OK for stimulus or infrastructure spending?" It reminds me of the guy who was arguing that "Clinton didnt pay off the debt". Hey that was you!



Now if you fight the urge to run away, do you realize that early 2009 was the right time for a stimulus? It seemed like conservatives believed no time was the right time for a stimulus when a democrat is president.

What a fool. It is in black and white for all to see. I am Moderate Right, not ModerationNow. Your partisanship has made you so blind you can't see things right in front of your face! Your credibility and objectivity has been destroyed.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

What a fool. It is in black and white for all to see. I am Moderate Right, not ModerationNow. Your partisanship has made you so blind you can't see things right in front of your face! Your credibility and objectivity has been destroyed.

my apologies. It was just that he was arguing against something that nobody was saying and didnt understand the difference between debt and deficit. You were also arguing against something that nobody is saying and dont understand the difference between stimulus and infrastructure.

again my apologies but since you're here do you realize that early 2009 was the right time for a stimulus?
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

my apologies. It was just that he was arguing against something that nobody was saying and didnt understand the difference between debt and deficit. You were also arguing against something that nobody is saying and dont understand the difference between stimulus and infrastructure.

again my apologies but since you're here do you realize that early 2009 was the right time for a stimulus?

This is not 2009 and infrastructure is nothing but a code word for increasing deficits and debt even more than they are now. So, infrastructure is indeed stimulus. We do not need stimulus now. I don't deny that we need expenditures on infrastructure but they need to be paid for instead of just increasing the debt. We could spend another 20 trillion dollars on infrastructure. For eight years every time Obama has wanted to increase the deficits and the debt he calls it "investing". Being anti-business he doesn't know the difference between investing and deficit spending. To him they are both one in the same.
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

So got any examples privatized funded infrastructure that worked? Just curious... cause the private toll road near here... damn expensive to go on, and that is even with the partial EU funding that went to pay for it..

Trains in Japan, prisons in some jurisdictions, toll roads, utilities in various countries, universities, airports, harbors, auto insurance, health insurance, pensions etc. One should always look at the technology used, the property rights structure and regulation governing the sector. Just because things do not work, when poorly done, does not mean that they cannot. One must look for the successes and emulate them.

PS: Let's hope that privatizing private goods type infrastructure works. After all, the EU is forcing Greece to do an awful lot of it just now. ;)
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

The "jig" is the maldistribution of income that is slowing consumer spending and GDP growth in developed nations. That leaves only Govts. with the money to spend to boost their economies. It is a band-aid that hopefully will bridge the gap between now and when policies that will boost the middle class take effect. Boosting up the incomes of the middle class is the only long term fix for slow growth. I'm afraid the wealthy have come dangerously close to killing the "golden goose" that made them rich.

Explain how this goose dies if the rich have more than you think they should. And didn't the rich get richer over the last 8 years following the very sort of plans you want to do more of?
 
Re: This Is Not The Time For Stimulus Spending

What a fool. It is in black and white for all to see. I am Moderate Right, not ModerationNow. Your partisanship has made you so blind you can't see things right in front of your face! Your credibility and objectivity has been destroyed.

Not true. They never existed.
 
Back
Top Bottom