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The National Debt: The Heroin Addiction of the American People

What is the evidence?

Over 19 trillion dollars in debt - that is the evidence.

Our country is drowning in debt, and you're concerned about putting some sort of blue color in the water to make it look prettier.
That we have debt is not evidence that Social Security COLA is not indexed to inflation!
All the things Visbek said are true AND we have over 19 trillion dollars in debt.

And he never denied debt....but by saying he was brainwashed, you were claiming his statements were false. And they're not. So you're being fundamentally dishonest.
 
I'm brainwashed because... I understand how Social Security works? lol

Answer the following. If false, be specific.

- SS is pay-as-you-go. True or false?

- SS has annual COLA adjustments. True or false?

- Payroll tax surpluses go to the Trust Fund. True or false?

- By law, the Trust Fund must be loaned to the rest of the federal government. True or false?

- The intergovernmental loans charge interest, and try to match inflation. True or false?

- The federal government has never failed to pay back a single intergovernmental loan. True or false?

- If you die at age 59, your family does not directly receive a single dollar from what you paid into Social Security. True or false?

- Social Security is not an individual retirement account. There is no account in your name. What they do is grant you a benefit based on the average monthly indexed earning of the 35 highest-earning years that you paid in payroll taxes. True or false?

Over 19 trillion dollars in debt - TRUE

Please stop with the spins - Nobody but the most starry-eyed lovers of liberal big government are buying it.
 
That we have debt is not evidence that Social Security COLA is not indexed to inflation!
All the things Visbek said are true AND we have over 19 trillion dollars in debt.

And he never denied debt....but by saying he was brainwashed, you were claiming his statements were false. And they're not. So you're being fundamentally dishonest.

His statements have nothing to do with convincing the general population that there needs to be a sense of urgency about the national debt.
 
His statements have nothing to do with convincing the general population that there needs to be a sense of urgency about the national debt.

Nor were they meant to. Neither do they display anything that could remotely be considered "brainwashing."
 
Over 19 trillion dollars in debt - TRUE

Please stop with the spins - Nobody but the most starry-eyed lovers of liberal big government are buying it.

So, in order to support your political claims, you state things that are not factually true but then dismiss and insult anyone pointing out your misstatements or those of your sources.

Do you even care about accuracy or the truth?
 
So, in order to support your political claims, you state things that are not factually true but then dismiss and insult anyone pointing out your misstatements or those of your sources.

Do you even care about accuracy or the truth?

The article is as accurate and truthful as a heart attack that isn't fatal, a warning that our country will have a financial heart attack, unless we smarten up, and elect responsible leaders such as Donald Trump and Mike Pence.

Why don't YOU admit, that you don't like the article because it's positive about Trump, rather than laying on meaningless rubbish that has nothing to do with the point of the article.

Of course you will likely do another silly retort, but you'll get no further response from me. As far as the article, you can take it or leave it, and I'm sure you will leave it, just like I hope we leave Crooked Hillary Clinton and send her back to anywhere else except the White House.
 
Here, because you did put some valiant effort into your post, I pasted the article area for you about social security. You call it whatever you want, I call it grabbed IE confiscation:

"That's not the only major problem regarding irresponsible government directly affecting you. There is no social security money saved up in the social security trust fund. It is all federal government IOU's. Not only did the government increase your taxes in a sneaky manner, they also grabbed your social security savings without your permission. When you are ready to collect social security, your money will be paid back to you in the form of new money worth a lot less in actual value than when you paid into it. Could this be considered a government pyramid scheme, a political con artist game of sorts? It probably does meet those definitions."

First, everyone with an IQ over 50 knows that there is no actual money in the SS trust fund so you really aren't educating anyone on this. While I don't agree with the government "borrowing" the funds in SS and using it to cover up a larger budget deficit than is advertised, you are going out on a limb here. The real problem with all of this isn't as you describe, it is using this accounting trick to cover up what would be a larger deficit number than what they tell us.
 
Congratulations - You've been officially brainwashed by the government. They will be sending you a certificate of achievement in the mail.

You are the one who has been brainwashed. If you have proof of what you say we are all ears.
 
His statements have nothing to do with convincing the general population that there needs to be a sense of urgency about the national debt.

Are you the convincer? I hate to burst your bubble but the only people you are going to convince are the people who are already on your side. Both the far left and the far right are so delusional when they think that they convince those on the other side the error of their ways. You might have more like with Martians.
 
The article is as accurate and truthful as a heart attack that isn't fatal, a warning that our country will have a financial heart attack, unless we smarten up, and elect responsible leaders such as Donald Trump and Mike Pence.

Why don't YOU admit, that you don't like the article because it's positive about Trump, rather than laying on meaningless rubbish that has nothing to do with the point of the article.

Of course you will likely do another silly retort, but you'll get no further response from me. As far as the article, you can take it or leave it, and I'm sure you will leave it, just like I hope we leave Crooked Hillary Clinton and send her back to anywhere else except the White House.

You are so brainwashed it is pathetic. Look, I hate crooked Hillary and I'm not a fan of Trump. But, if you look at things with non-biased and non-partisan eyes, you would see that Trump's plan explodes the national debt far worse than what even liberal Hillary proposes. That is not my opinion. It is the opinion of unbiased experts who have looked at both candidate's economic and tax plans.
 
Are you the convincer? I hate to burst your bubble but the only people you are going to convince are the people who are already on your side. Both the far left and the far right are so delusional when they think that they convince those on the other side the error of their ways. You might have more like with Martians.

For some of us it that does not matter, even if you are completely right, because we live by a code, and a part of that code is that we need to make the effort even against humongous odds.

You do the right thing,

Full. Stop.
 
For some of us it that does not matter, even if you are completely right, because we live by a code, and a part of that code is that we need to make the effort even against humongous odds.

You do the right thing,

Full. Stop.

I hate to break it to you but extremist partisan codes are never going to convert ANYONE on the other side while you might convert 100 out of 1,000 in the middle while 200 out of 1,000 are going to be so turned off by your attempt to convert them with extremism that they will hop on the other side just because of being so turned off. I'm one of those in the middle myself and even though I lean to the right, the far right just pisses me off just as much as the far left does with their extremist partisan and biased crapola like Stephen spews.
 
the most widely abused programs is probably SSDI

Widely abused? There's some abuse, but yer required to prove that yer unable to work. I can barely walk, and that makes my job very difficult at times. I may be forced to file an SSDI claim if I can't survive financially for another two years to get to 62 when I can file for OASI benefits.

>>there are a variety of programs that those who want to live largely or entirely at public expense can do use.

Can you name some?

Maine put in a work requirement for able-bodied adults with no children

They reinstated a federal rule that states have been allowed to waive if the labor market was in really bad shape.

>>many chose not to meet those requirements. It wasn't worth it to them to get a job, do volunteer work, etc.

What about those who are unable to find work? In some cases, finding even a qualifying volunteer position can be difficult.

Warren Bailey, 40, has been unable to find work in towing or fast food and so has signed up as a pantry volunteer. But there is concern in the state that there is not enough volunteering or job-training capacity for food stamp recipients who cannot find jobs, especially in rural parts.

"If you're not lucky like me and found this place, the food pantry, I don’t even know where else I would go," Mr. Bailey said. (source)​

when they were told they would have to put forth minimal effort, many chose instead to leave the program, providing significant savings to the government.

Last year, the average monthly SNAP benefit for a Mainiac was $116. If that was collected all twelve months, the annual total was $1392. With around 9,500 ABAWDs being dumped, that's something like thirteen million dollars from a state budget of $6.7B — less than two-tenths of one percent. Not all that significant.

It was their decisions that caused them to lose the program, their decision not to meet the minimal requirement of showing up for six hours a week for community service.

Is this always true?

>>those who can work, and who refuse to do so

What about those who can't find work?

[Terry] Work's 27-year-old deaf son recently was denied disability payments, meaning he is considered able-bodied. Now he stands to lose his food stamps, even though he has trouble keeping a job because of his deafness, she says. (source)​

Things may be more complicated than you seem to think.

"It means life gets tougher for those childless adults who face barriers already getting back into work," said Ed Bolen, a senior policy analyst at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

He said those adults tended to have limited education and faced a postrecession labor market in which many people who want to work still cannot find jobs. According to the federal Agriculture Department, the households of able-bodied adults receiving food stamps in 2013 had average gross incomes of $308 per month — or less than 30 percent of the federal poverty guideline.

The re-emergence of the work requirements has stoked discontent among advocates for the poor and hungry who say the law is unfair because states are not required to offer food stamp recipients a work assignment before cutting them off, and because searching for a job does not necessarily count. The Agriculture Department makes money available to states willing to pledge work assignments to food stamp recipients, but many states do not take advantage of it. Recently the department announced that it had provided $200 million to 10 states for pilot programs that would help people find jobs and move them off food stamps.

"If the job situation in the area is a really a tough situation, this is an incredibly harsh provision," said Ellen Vollinger, the legal and food stamp director for the Food Research and Action Center. "There's going to be harm, and it's going to show up in greater hunger, probably in greater instances of health problems and could show up in greater instances of homelessness."

Around the country, food pantry directors are girding for an influx of hungry adults as the work requirement re-emerges. In Wisconsin, the time limit kicked in statewide on April 1, and the independent Legislative Fiscal Bureau there has estimated that 31,000 people could lose their food stamps.

"We're going to run out of food," said Sherrie Tussler, the executive director of the Hunger Task Force Milwaukee. "It's going to cause wide-scale hunger here in Milwaukee, and we're in trouble."​
 
His statements have nothing to do with convincing the general population that there needs to be a sense of urgency about the national debt.

And you continue to provide no evidence that a sense of urgency about the national debt is even necessary.

Well, except, "OMG!!! DEBT BAD!!"

Then again, that's not evidence.
 
Let me guess, the same type of sources who claim that global warming is our biggest national security threat.

Ya mean like the Pentagon?

To the military, climate change acts as a threat multiplier, exacerbating threats in already unstable regions of the world. Just as we act aggressively on information from the national security intelligence community, we must also act on the scientific evidence from our nation's best climate scientists. (source)​

>>Liberals can spin stats in every which way.

This is the standard dodge from RWers who push their positions despite clear evidence to the contrary. A loser's tactic.

>>Obama and Hillary are skilled liars.

Frumpy is an inveterate and prolific liar. The claims attributing lies to the Witch and the Negro are themselves lies.

>>We all know the economy stinks - no stats are needed to tell us that which we can see for ourselves.

You think the economy stinks, and you don't care that the evidence clearly indicates otherwise. Willful ignorance — the trademark of Clown column.

McMahohn-and-Trump.jpg
 
Just wondering about the print out money thing,Does only the US who can print out money? and why it can make an inflation when it is only be used for paying debt?
 
Note: I don't normally use the tactic of asking questions I already know the answer to, but in this case, the answers are important topics that you should have, but failed to talk about. So I'm asking in order for you to demonstrate that you were not writing in ignorance.

The National Debt: The Heroin Addiction of the American People

Article from Stephen50right

Similar to heroin addiction that is eventually deadly to the user if not stopped, the growing national debt is financially deadly to America. Now at over 19 trillion dollars and addictively increasing, the American people with the national debt are like heroin junkies who constantly need to increase the dose of their drug to continue getting the desired effect.

This is not going to be a normal article about the national debt, boring you with statistics to the point of numbness about this massive problem, and stifling any motivation to get it solved because it seems so overwhelming. This article is intended to awaken you, especially the middle class, to the point of understanding that we must begin doing something now about this monstrous problem.

The national debt has doubled under Barack Obama from around 10 trillion dollars, coming up to 20 trillion dollars. It's not just meaningless numbers, the lenders have to be paid back.
Ok, let's talk about that. Please share who the lenders are, and in particular the difference between the public debt and the gross national debt.

First, let's address the issue that some people believe the United States could go bankrupt because of the national debt. This will never happen because we have the ability to print our own money. When parts of the debt come due, if there isn't sufficient incoming revenue, and temporarily we cannot borrow, then we can just print money to pay it. Yes, we won't go bankrupt, but doing this only exacerbates the problem.
Although you are correct in general, there is no reason to think such printing will ever be necessary.



Let's use a premise that you are a middle class taxpayer, who over the years, paid taxes on your income. You had 50 thousand dollars lifetime savings in the bank back in 2009, and you still have the 50k in the bank today. That 50k back in 2009 would of course buy you 50k worth of goods and services at that time. But now in 2016, this 50k may only buy you around 25k worth of goods and services from that time. Using this premise, in terms of buying power which is the purpose of money, the government has taxed you around 25 thousand dollars on your savings in the bank.
Let's rephrase that to the more conventional manner: IF you had $50,000 in 2009, the amount of goods and services you could purchase then for $50,000 would now cost you $100,000 (actually, it would be $56,133)
But how are you considering that a tax? How is the government benefiting from that?

Any assets such as a house owned from 2009 thru 2016 which has not appreciated, the value of your money is also negatively affected. Your house and other assets represent savings. So your house, paid in full worth 100k, represents 100k in money that could be put in the bank if you sold it. If your house was worth 100k in 2009, and is still worth 100k today, with a rising national debt the government taxed you in the same way as if your money was in the bank.
You're forgetting opportunity cost. And real estate is generally considered investment, not savings. But again...where's the tax?

The premise of the correlation between the numbers 50k and 25k were used to make a point, considering that the national debt has doubled. The exact percentage devaluation of your money using various economic models, may not be half of your savings. However the amount of money value you have lost is substantial, without a doubt..
Sure. But while increase in the money supply can lead to inflation, it's not the only cause of inflation.
 
Yea, just like the unemployment rate is really 5% :lamo

It is. I guess that settles that.
Another reason why liberals should never be in charge of government, especially on a national level.
It's politically manipulated by both sides. The liberals love doing it, and the Republicans are too timid to do anything about it.

But then along came Trump...........


The idea that the unemployment rate is not really 5% is crazy on several levels. The first is that implies that career civil servants, who serve in both Democratic and Republican administrations, fudge the numbers for political reasons. There is no evidence that happens at all. A civil servant can be fired for falsifying official reports.

The second is that the government just isn't publishing the "real" metric. I'll just have Paul Krugman answer that:


There Is No “True” Unemployment Rate
 
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