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The Income Inequality Hypocrisy Of Obama And Clinton

sangha said:
The chart indicates its' monetary value
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Great.. whats the value if its sold?

By the way.. I don't think you know what the definition of illiquid is.

Illiquid assets can still be sold.. they are difficult to sell or difficult to sell without a loss. But they can be sold for monetary value.

Try that with your Medicaid insurance.. or your employee sponsored insurance.
 
sangha said:
Look at the chart
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To be clear then.. they can sell that insurance and use the monetary value to pay off their truck bill?

if not.. well then that "monetary value" that they assign isn't valid.

no matter how many times you post that it is.
 
jaeger19 said:
Yep... "even using them (ANNUAL FIGURES that were brought up by other people)..
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Which it repeated, used....and when they were inconvenient, getting in the way of its wanting to not include tax credits, shifted to monthly income.

And then I pointed out that using annual figures is not completely valid when discussing the poor and hardship.
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especially when it wants to delete tax credits.

Whats your problem Gollum?... lost "yer precious".
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The only one losing.....is it.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Which it repeated, used....and when they were inconvenient, getting in the way of its wanting to not include tax credits, shifted to monthly income.

especially when it wants to delete tax credits.

The only one losing.....is it.
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Nope Gollum is wrong again...

annual figures were used because they were brought up by other people.. then it was pointed out the problems with annual figures.. for people that have fragile incomes and live month to month or week to week.

And it was pointed out the problems with using tax credits as if they were monthly cash.

There was no "deleting of tax credits".. in fact subsequent discussions continue to use those tax credits.

that's how it is.

The only one losing is Gollum. Gollum is creating situations/discussions that only exist in Gollums mind.
 
jaeger19 said:
Nope Gollum is wrong again...

annual figures were used because they were brought up by other people..
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Which you used, repeated when they were useful.
then it was pointed out the problems with annual figures.. for people that have fragile incomes and live month to month or week to week.
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The problem, as already stated, was that it wanted to deny the addition of tax credits.

And it was pointed out the problems with using tax credits as if they were monthly cash.
There was no "deleting of tax credits".. in fact subsequent discussions continue to use those tax credits.
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Your whole point is based on a belief of how much is being withheld, I always opted for minimal levels. It will be hard pressed to determine that is incorrect.


that's how it is.
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"poop", does it see that this is a parody of it?
The only one losing is Gollum. Gollum is creating situations/discussions that only exist in Gollums mind.
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The irony, what it thinks are "problems"....are completely its own creations taht have no support, but that is what it does.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Which you used, repeated when they were useful. The problem, as already stated, was that it wanted to deny the addition of tax credits.

Your whole point is based on a belief of how much is being withheld, I always opted for minimal levels. It will be hard pressed to determine that is incorrect.


"poop", does it see that this is a parody of it?The irony, what it thinks are "problems"....are completely its own creations taht have no support, but that is what it does.
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Lets see..

1. Yes its useful in a conversation to use the data that others present.. and to show what using that data can cause problems

2. the problems that Gollum has is that Jaeger pointed out the problems with tax credits but did not deny them and actually used the data with them in it.

So Gollum is either not very smart.. or Gollum is a liar.

3. no.. I was not considering "what was withheld".. because people at this level likely pay no tax at all (as I didn;t when I was at this level). In all likely hood that benefit is mostly a credit where they get more income in than tax they pay. The problem is that this income is not monthly.

4. What Gollum sees are not reality.


4.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
It is one word, and as per usual, it has nothing to back it up. Just speculation and ifs.
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well except the statements before it.. and the statements made after it.. both based on logic and facts...

but hey.. why bother with context when Gollum is in fantasy land.
 
jaeger19 said:
well except the statements before it.. and the statements made after it.. both based on logic and facts...

but hey.. why bother with context when Gollum is in fantasy land.
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Again, IRONY, it REJECTS CONTEXT, it cannot in any way shape or form bring forth REAL WORLD DATA to show CONTEXT. Speculation, ifs and anecdote....are not CONTEXT.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Again, IRONY, it REJECTS CONTEXT, it cannot in any way shape or form bring forth REAL WORLD DATA to show CONTEXT. Speculation, ifs and anecdote....are not CONTEXT.
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Actually. Gollum doesn;t realize that jaeger uses plenty of real world data to support his logic. in fact.. he often has to explain to Gollum the data.

Gollum doesn't understand objective reasoning or scientific inquiry.

Probably because of this confusion.. Gollum latches on to a word or two out of context and then makes up an alternative reality.
 
jaeger19 said:
Actually. Gollum doesn;t realize that jaeger uses plenty of real world data to support his logic. in fact.. he often has to explain to Gollum the data.

Gollum doesn't understand objective reasoning or scientific inquiry.

Probably because of this confusion.. Gollum latches on to a word or two out of context and then makes up an alternative reality.
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No, it has a long history of claiming others do not understand data they have posted ......and then scurries away instead of justifying.
 
Moderate Right said:
They fight for income inequality but how have their own personal finances done over the last several years compared to the poor? Hasn't there been a huge growing gap in income equality there? They rail against the difference between the one percent and the poor while at the very same time their own finances are growing exponentially compared to the poor. Those greedy owners of large corporations, CEO's and others on Wall Street just keep on getting richer and richer at the expense of the poor and Obama and Clinton want to lead the charge against them. Hypocrisy at it's finest?
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Really, that's your problem with Clinton and Obama? They get their taxes done? So anyone who uses H&R can't complain about income inequality?

See, I would have said that Clinton, Obama, and every last Republican and corporatist Democrat were complicit in income inequality because they have either signed, written, or endorsed legislation for the last 20 years that has done nothing but harm the American workers, the middle-class, and the poor. Whether we're talking about our wildly costly foreign policy that is just corporate welfare, or the massive bailouts to banks, or deregulating, defunding, and/or privatizing services that those groups need, or lobbying for tax decreases, allowing or campaigning for austerity measures like sequestration that just harm everyone who's not in the top 10%, or let's cut it short and say that Democrats and Republicans have both turned into the party of neoliberal corporate sell outs, which re-write our economic system to rob from the poor and middle-class in order to give to the rich, and then pay off corporate media and fringe lunatics to pit poor whites, poor blacks, and poor Latinos against each other so they never form a common, collective threat to the .1%.
 
Moderate Right said:
They fight for income inequality but how have their own personal finances done over the last several years compared to the poor? Hasn't there been a huge growing gap in income equality there? They rail against the difference between the one percent and the poor while at the very same time their own finances are growing exponentially compared to the poor. Those greedy owners of large corporations, CEO's and others on Wall Street just keep on getting richer and richer at the expense of the poor and Obama and Clinton want to lead the charge against them. Hypocrisy at it's finest?
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Hypocrisy?

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

That's the misunderstood concept of hypocrisy. Suppose that you're a politician who advocates higher taxes on high incomes and a stronger social safety net -- but you yourself earn enough from sources that you will pay some of those higher taxes and are unlikely to rely on that stronger safety net. A remarkable number of people look at that combination of personal and political positions and cry "Hypocrisy!"

This is the same complaint that we saw in the 2004 election, when many accused John Kerry of being "inauthentic" because he was a rich man advocating policies that would help the poor and the middle class. Apparently you can only be authentic if your politics reflect pure personal self-interest -- Donald Trump is Mr. Natural, as he proposes tax policies that will slash his own taxes.

Mrs. Clinton gives speeches before Wall St. firms but also supports strong regulation on Wall St. firms. So to say what should be obvious but apparently isn't: supporting policies that are to your personal financial disadvantage and accepting donations from those that you still want to regulate isn't hypocrisy -- it's civic virtue!
 
MTAtech said:
Hypocrisy? I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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Excellent language and logic skills!

Fat cats hope to influence Clinton, and perhaps succeed to some extent. No need to do that with Frumpy. He just lies and says Hillary proposes "a massive tax increase" while keeping his fat, ugly mouth shut about all the money he'd shovel at wealthy households.

Clinton_tax_proposal.jpg

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tax_plans.jpg

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mmi said:
Excellent language and logic skills!

Fat cats hope to influence Clinton, and perhaps succeed to some extent. No need to do that with Frumpy. He just lies and says Hillary proposes "a massive tax increase" while keeping his fat, ugly mouth shut about all the money he'd shovel at wealthy households.

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I believe the Trump tax-plan that you quoted was the original plan. The latest plan cuts many of the deductions of the middle class and their taxes don't go down at all. The only people under the new plan are the.... (wait for it) ... the rich.
 
MTAtech said:
I believe the Trump tax-plan that you quoted was the original plan. The latest plan cuts many of the deductions of the middle class and their taxes don't go down at all.
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Thanks. As honest liberals (excuse the redundancy), we should acknowledge that the new plan doesn't explode the debt as much. But of course none of this will be enacted anyway, even if the nightmare of a Frump presidency befalls us. We should hope for a Clinton administration and at least holding onto the Obummer rates. True reform will require Democratic control, which is likely a few years away at best. Kaine 2024?

Kaine_2024.jpg
 
I don't know why people think that any candidate's tax plan will become reality. Things have to go through a gridlocked congress first. The president is not a dictator. They can't just say, "this is my tax plan, I won the election, therefore my tax plan is the law of the nation.
 
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