Page 2 of 657 FirstFirst 12341252102502 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 6569

Thread: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

  1. #11
    Mod Conspiracy Theorist
    rocket88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    A very blue state
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    28,544

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The debt rose every year under Clinton and we've been running deficits every year since 2008 and the Nations economy is still on life support 8 years later. ....with some exception.

    Here in Texas we've seen a unprecedented influx of Americans move into our Cities and the surrounding areas and a unprecedented influx of private sector investment to go along with it

    The State of Texas and the cities that have seen their populations grow exponentially didn't have to go into debt to fund this growth. We just had to adhere to the very supply side strategies MMTers say dont work

    People respond to incentives. Its a axiomatic truth that blows the minds of your average MMTers.

    Also the existence of Texas's multibillion dollar rainy day fund hasn't had any negative impact whatsoever.

    Make no mistake, MMT is just a very poorly veiled attempt to sell off destructive Progressive economic initiatives as something new. Its not even a clever attempt.

    Its monetary gibberish used to perpetuate Fiscal initaives that grow the debt and Govt at the expense of the economy and the Federal budget

    So. Should Japan start spending ? Should Venezuela start spending ?

    Should the State of California start spending ? Should Detroit start spending ? Cities can sell bonds to deficit spend BTW
    Uh...we've been running deficits since before 2008.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I smell hosiery....
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    I call my wife a slut

  2. #12
    I'm not-low all the time
    Kushinator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Hyde Park
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    15,872

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnfrmClevelan View Post
    Well, there aren't many circumstances in which it's a good idea for the government to remove more dollars from the economy than it spends in. Certainly not in the U.S., where we run trade deficits that almost every other country takes advantage of. If you go back to the supply-side thread, we started talking about demand leakages and injections, and our trade deficit is a large, consistent leak. We were still running large trade deficits while the government was running a surplus - all of those dollars, on both ends, came out of private sector pockets. A similar thing happened in the 2000's, when homeowners were borrowing heavily against their home equity. Recessions followed both times.
    John, why do you continue to make the argument that the economy must have a private sector surplus? I seen you post a chart that attempts to establish a relationship between recession and a private deficit, do you have access to the source and it's data?
    It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion.
    "Wealth of Nations," Book V, Chapter II, Part II, Article I, pg.911

  3. #13
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,464

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    Uh...we've been running deficits since before 2008.
    Sure, and we've had eeconomic booms and recessions.

    Besides, Im not the one trying to make the correlation that surpluses damage the economy.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

  4. #14
    Sage
    Moderate Right's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Kentucky
    Last Seen
    05-28-17 @ 09:00 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    13,005

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Yes, keep an open mind, but if you disagree with us you're a idiot, dont understand accounting, the economy, how Banks work, etc, etc.....
    They still believe in money trees, Santa Clause, and the Easter Bunny.

  5. #15
    Guru
    JohnfrmClevelan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Last Seen
    05-07-17 @ 11:19 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    4,875

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kushinator View Post
    John, why do you continue to make the argument that the economy must have a private sector surplus? I seen you post a chart that attempts to establish a relationship between recession and a private deficit, do you have access to the source and it's data?
    I don't have the data, and I'm lousy at FRED. The source is Stephanie Kelton.
    ___________________________________________

    Enchanted Necromancer Brings Life Back To Once-Dead Argument

  6. #16
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    I think JOhn and David are pretty open minded. The issue I typically see is when people don't actually argue against their points, but they argue against points they aren't making. Ie (unlimited spending, Weimar type inflation, bigger government etc...). And other mythical things like the Lost Decade or a prolonged Depression from government spending, etc....

    I got someone in the other thread to type out that Japan grew at a rate 1% less than the US in the 90's (during a tech boom). And yet they still wouldn't own up to the fact that Japan never had a Lost Decade, even after admitting that it nearly matched the US in growth during a boom period!
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  7. #17
    Sage
    Fenton's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:04 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    23,464

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    I think JOhn and David are pretty open minded. The issue I typically see is when people don't actually argue against their points, but they argue against points they aren't making. Ie (unlimited spending, Weimar type inflation, bigger government etc...). And other mythical things like the Lost Decade or a prolonged Depression from government spending, etc....

    I got someone in the other thread to type out that Japan grew at a rate 1% less than the US in the 90's (during a tech boom). And yet they still wouldn't own up to the fact that Japan never had a Lost Decade, even after admitting that it nearly matched the US in growth during a boom period!
    I find the graph that you posted that showed Japanes GDP tracking the USs pretty interesting actually.

    Also, GDP out of context is a pretty poor way to evaluate the success and health of a economy.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

  8. #18
    Guru
    JP Hochbaum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Last Seen
    01-11-17 @ 09:17 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,392
    Blog Entries
    1

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I find the graph that you posted that showed Japanes GDP tracking the USs pretty interesting actually.

    Also, GDP out of context is a pretty poor way to evaluate the success and health of a economy.
    I don't disagree. But I was just using what others were using to make a point.
    My blog, where I talk latest news on economics and some other issues.

    http://hereticaldruthers.wordpress.com/

  9. #19
    User
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Manchester, UK
    Last Seen
    05-26-17 @ 06:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    116

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
    I think JOhn and David are pretty open minded. The issue I typically see is when people don't actually argue against their points, but they argue against points they aren't making. Ie (unlimited spending, Weimar type inflation, bigger government etc...). And other mythical things like the Lost Decade or a prolonged Depression from government spending, etc....

    I got someone in the other thread to type out that Japan grew at a rate 1% less than the US in the 90's (during a tech boom). And yet they still wouldn't own up to the fact that Japan never had a Lost Decade, even after admitting that it nearly matched the US in growth during a boom period!
    Being almost 50% off of the US's growth isn't nearly matching it is it now? Also it's not like Japan didn't benefit from the tech boom (hell, in some ways they helped drive the expansion of tech), and it's a lost decade precisely because they've fallen well behind most other wester countries in a lot of factors, they were once the most productive nation on earth, but now they only manage 62% of what the US manages, the lowest out of all the 'big' economies (UK, USA, Japan, France, Germany, etc.). And they're well below where they should have been, how is it not a lost decade?

    Also the reason that per capita growth isn't used ( or at least I don't use them for this reason) is because they're a pain in the arse in comparing different countries as I've yet to find a source where GDP per capita is shown as a percentage growth, rather than just raw numbers.

  10. #20
    Professor

    Join Date
    Dec 2015
    Last Seen
    05-25-17 @ 11:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,099

    re: Explaining Why Federal Deficits Are Needed[W:5330]

    comparing 100+ years ago to today is like comparing a bicycle to a Ferrari.

    The bond issue is misleading. interest rates on bonds are so pathetically low interest isn't really a factor. safeguarding is a more likely reason.
    But to the point why this is misleading. your thread title mentions deficits... but you have misdirected and are talking about debt. not the same thing at all. although there is a relationship of course but selling bonds is not deficit spending.

    As to the bankruptcy.. in a sense yes.. however you will recall when QE was going full bore and overspending was at its highest, companies like Moody's and Standard&Poor etc lowered the credit rating of USA.
    This affects interest rates of course. it also affects confidence and it affects currency exchange rates. Pretending we can just create money when needed and nothing will really happen is so foolishly nave and shortsighted.
    The US has been forceful with telling Japan and China not to devalue their currency but then some think its ok for us to do it.

    Debt we will always have. deficits we should rarely have is pretty much my point.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •