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Boehners Secret Debt Ceiling Agreement

The Penguin said:
Not unless you wanted to reduce deficit or debt. I suppose once the debt is paid off, you could cut taxes. But even then, why? Wouldn't you want a rainy day fund in case of emergencies?
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Up to what point?
 
jonny5 said:
Thats hard to believe. You really think that putting $500 back in someones paycheck has no effect on their spending or productivity?
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The effect, as we saw during the Bush years, was an increase in personal debt. Not an increase in spending. The first four years of the Bush Tax Cuts saw personal debt rise, wages decline, 841,000 jobs lost, and economic growth of just 10%.
 
The Penguin said:
The effect, as we saw during the Bush years, was an increase in personal debt. Not an increase in spending. The first four years of the Bush Tax Cuts saw personal debt rise, wages decline, 841,000 jobs lost, and economic growth of just 10%.
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How does giving someone $500 back increase their debt? What about the 500bn in tax cuts that were in the 2009 stimulus, or the coninuence of the Bush tax cuts through 2012? Did it cause decline in wages, job loss, stagnant growth? Increase in personal debt?
 
jonny5 said:
How does giving someone $500 back increase their debt?
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Because their wage grows slower than inflation so costs rise which leads to more borrowing. It's the entire reason why the economy collapsed when the credit markets froze.


What about the 500bn in tax cuts that were in the 2009 stimulus, or the coninuence of the Bush tax cuts through 2012?
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Yeah, and we hear nonstop from Conservatives how terrible the economy has been. So here's the thing, man...you can't say that tax cuts are good for the economy on one hand, while at the same time saying that Obama's economy has been terrible since his economy is a continuation of the one under the failed Bush Tax Cuts.


Did it cause decline in wages, job loss, stagnant growth? Increase in personal debt?
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Yes. That's why sensible liberals and Democrats said the stimulus should have been more domestic spending and less tax cuts. The largest share of Obama's stimulus was the tax cuts. Obama kept the middle-class tax cuts after 2012, but raised taxes on income above $400K starting in 2013. It's no coincidence that the economy did better once that happened, and the deficit was reduced by $350B.
 
jonny5 said:
What I said was literal, not hyperbole. A 'pistol to anyones head', on the other hand, IS hyperbole. Though its an apt description of whats happening, waiting till the last minute, saying pass this or default.
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That's a two-way street.
 
The Penguin said:
Because their wage grows slower than inflation so costs rise which leads to more borrowing. It's the entire reason why the economy collapsed when the credit markets froze.




Yeah, and we hear nonstop from Conservatives how terrible the economy has been. So here's the thing, man...you can't say that tax cuts are good for the economy on one hand, while at the same time saying that Obama's economy has been terrible since his economy is a continuation of the one under the failed Bush Tax Cuts.




Yes. That's why sensible liberals and Democrats said the stimulus should have been more domestic spending and less tax cuts. The largest share of Obama's stimulus was the tax cuts. Obama kept the middle-class tax cuts after 2012, but raised taxes on income above $400K starting in 2013. It's no coincidence that the economy did better once that happened, and the deficit was reduced by $350B.
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I didnt say the economy was terrible. You have been saying its good, and tax cuts are bad, yet we have tax cuts, Both Bush and Obama. So which is it?

Also, the economy didnt do better once taxes were raised. As you can see GDP was already humming along in 2010 (after a tax cut!)

2009 -2.0
2010 3.8
2011 3.7
2012 4.1
2013 3.1
2014 4.1

Its not real different than 2010 or 2011. Even a little worse in 2013.
 
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jonny5 said:
Thats hard to believe. You really think that putting $500 back in someones paycheck has no effect on their spending or productivity?
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So you believe in government handouts and you are against FIT cuts, correct ?
 
jonny5 said:
No, the opposite.
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FIT cuts won't put $500 back in everybody's pocket.

More generally, they do almost nothing for half of Americans. For someone like me, it'd give me more money, but i really don't need it. And the people who would get the most money make more than 10x as much as i do. Why the hell do they need it ...?
 
Notice how it's always the Democrats who come together (with a minority of Republicans) to pass budgets that keep the nation from defaulting on our debts and keep the government running?

I wonder when the Republicans will grow up and demonstrate that they can actually govern?
 
jpn said:
Notice how it's always the Democrats who come together (with a minority of Republicans) to pass budgets that keep the nation from defaulting on our debts and keep the government running?

I wonder when the Republicans will grow up and demonstrate that they can actually govern?
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They'll have to actually do something of substance like Obamacare.

Until they actually do something, they're stuck poking holes in the democrats. It's working out well for them because all the fake anger increases viewership.
 
Absentglare said:
FIT cuts won't put $500 back in everybody's pocket.

More generally, they do almost nothing for half of Americans. For someone like me, it'd give me more money, but i really don't need it. And the people who would get the most money make more than 10x as much as i do. Why the hell do they need it ...?
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How would a $500 tax cut NOT put $500 back in everybodys pocket?
 
jonny5 said:
How would a $500 tax cut NOT put $500 back in everybodys pocket?
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By adding to the deficit. Last time I checked, the U.S. had a serious revenue deficiency problem.
 
jpn said:
Notice how it's always the Democrats who come together (with a minority of Republicans) to pass budgets that keep the nation from defaulting on our debts and keep the government running?

I wonder when the Republicans will grow up and demonstrate that they can actually govern?
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And who is it that keeps opposing balanced budgets, which lead us to this continuing debt crisis?
 
jonny5 said:
How would a $500 tax cut NOT put $500 back in everybodys pocket?
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A $500 tax credit would put $500 back in everybody's pocket. A tax cut that averages out to $500 per person would overwhelmingly redistribute income to the super rich at the expense of the public..
 
jonny5 said:
And who is it that keeps opposing balanced budgets, which lead us to this continuing debt crisis?
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Republicans who are responsible for virtually all of the deficit-increasing policies for the past >20 years.

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Absentglare said:
A $500 tax credit would put $500 back in everybody's pocket. A tax cut that averages out to $500 per person would overwhelmingly redistribute income to the super rich at the expense of the public..
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Ok, well thats not what I said, was it?
 
Absentglare said:
Republicans who are responsible for virtually all of the deficit-increasing policies for the past >20 years.
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I asked who OPPOSES balanced budgets. For example, the current year budget resolution would have no deficit in 8 years. Democrats voted against it. And when appropriations bills were passed in the House to adhere to this budget, Democrats voted against it as well. To be fair, the Senate failed to even consider the bills, which led to the current situation. Thus both parties are at fault.
 
jonny5 said:
Ok, well thats not what I said, was it?
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No, instead you said some nonsense "$500 tax cut" that doesn't exist.

A tax credit can give every American $500.

Any FIT cut will overwhelmingly redistribute income into the hands of those who are least equipped to use it.
 
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