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Taxpayers Fleeing Democrat-Run States for Republican Ones...

MickeyW

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In 2013, more than 200,000 people on net fled states with Democrat governors for ones run by Republicans, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by Americans for Tax Reform.

"People move away from high tax states to low tax states. Every tax refugee is sending a powerful message to politicians," said ATR President Grover Norquist. "They are voting with their feet. Leaders in Texas and Florida are listening. New York and California are not."

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones
 
In 2013, more than 200,000 people on net fled states with Democrat governors for ones run by Republicans, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by Americans for Tax Reform.

"People move away from high tax states to low tax states. Every tax refugee is sending a powerful message to politicians," said ATR President Grover Norquist. "They are voting with their feet. Leaders in Texas and Florida are listening. New York and California are not."

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones

Wrong. What Norquist fails to say - and what you fail to grasp - is that the flight isn't from "high-tax states" to "low-tax states", but flight from largely rural areas to largely urban areas. Look at the county-by-county map below - generally speaking, what places had the greatest decrease? Rural areas, all throughout the red states. This isn't to say that red states aren't gaining more population - they mostly are. What it shows, though, is that in both red and blue states, the urban areas (and particularly the suburban areas around them) are the ones that are experiencing sustained growth in population.

populationchg.jpg

And as for your 'tax' argument, the example of Washington state blows it away. Why? Because while we have no income tax, we do have the highest sales tax in the nation, and our property tax is among the highest in the nation...yet western Washington - the high-tax, increasingly-urbanized Puget Sound area - continues to have a high rate of population growth, so much so that it's sort of a meme here that we try to encourage people to stay away from Washington state.
 
Wrong. What Norquist fails to say - and what you fail to grasp - is that the flight isn't from "high-tax states" to "low-tax states", but flight from largely rural areas to largely urban areas. Look at the county-by-county map below - generally speaking, what places had the greatest decrease? Rural areas, all throughout the red states. This isn't to say that red states aren't gaining more population - they mostly are. What it shows, though, is that in both red and blue states, the urban areas (and particularly the suburban areas around them) are the ones that are experiencing sustained growth in population.

View attachment 67189487

And as for your 'tax' argument, the example of Washington state blows it away. Why? Because while we have no income tax, we do have the highest sales tax in the nation, and our property tax is among the highest in the nation...yet western Washington - the high-tax, increasingly-urbanized Puget Sound area - continues to have a high rate of population growth, so much so that it's sort of a meme here that we try to encourage people to stay away from Washington state.


:lamo Nothing funnier than a leftist totally caught up in his own self imposed delusions.

Jobs Aren't Leaving California For Texas, But People Are

Hundreds of Thousands Flee Democrat-Run California - Breitbart

California Losing Population to Texas - California Political Review

Migration Calculator
Migration Data

Escape From New York? High-Taxing Empire State Loses 3.4 Million Residents in 10 Years
 
In 2013, more than 200,000 people on net fled states with Democrat governors for ones run by Republicans, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by Americans for Tax Reform.

"People move away from high tax states to low tax states. Every tax refugee is sending a powerful message to politicians," said ATR President Grover Norquist. "They are voting with their feet. Leaders in Texas and Florida are listening. New York and California are not."

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones

I can understand why they would flee. I just don't understand why they bring their voting habits with them. How can so many people not see the relationship between who they vote for, and the policies they have to live with?
 
Wrong. What Norquist fails to say - and what you fail to grasp - is that the flight isn't from "high-tax states" to "low-tax states", but flight from largely rural areas to largely urban areas. Look at the county-by-county map below - generally speaking, what places had the greatest decrease? Rural areas, all throughout the red states. This isn't to say that red states aren't gaining more population - they mostly are. What it shows, though, is that in both red and blue states, the urban areas (and particularly the suburban areas around them) are the ones that are experiencing sustained growth in population.

And as for your 'tax' argument, the example of Washington state blows it away. Why? Because while we have no income tax, we do have the highest sales tax in the nation, and our property tax is among the highest in the nation...yet western Washington - the high-tax, increasingly-urbanized Puget Sound area - continues to have a high rate of population growth, so much so that it's sort of a meme here that we try to encourage people to stay away from Washington state.

Kind of a meme around here is, why would anyone want to live in western Wa.? High taxes, liberals up the ass, ridiculous $15 an hour minimum wage for uneducated boobs(I mean $15 for a burger flipper...that's nuts), so many anti-gun folks, outrageous gun control laws, too many ethnic criminals(especially around Tacoma).

In addition to that, your map is 5 years old and put out only a year after obummer's policies started ruining the US.

Sure, it's a beautiful place to live, I use to visit often when I had inlaws there...my x-brotherinlaw and his wife were entrenched in the Demo Party, addicted to the NY Times and he, the youngest mayor of Tacoma. Nice people....but liberals to the max. I would not discuss anything political when staying at their house.
It actually made me sad, that they were so nice, yet....so liberal.


You got it. I use to live in the SF Bay Area and really miss the near perfect weather there, but I don't miss the loss of certain Freedoms those folks have.
I talked to a cop in Nv. 2 years ago, who moved from LA........he said the same things.
 
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I can understand why they would flee. I just don't understand why they bring their voting habits with them. How can so many people not see the relationship between who they vote for, and the policies they have to live with?

Precisely. They bring their liberal dope voting habits and then ruin that state as well. Oregon has gotten that way. Portland metro area is almost as bad as the Seattle/Tacoma area.

I moved from a high density area of Ca. to a rural area of Oregon and was homesick for years....it was like the end of the earth. About 5 years ago, it finally hit me, Ca. and Wa. are going to the dogs.......better to be here in the rural spot.

We have little serious crime here....mainly because there are no Blacks to speak of, ruining it for everyone else. The Asians are decent, hard working, and so are most of the Hispanics. Add it up, and the none white population, is about 2% of my county.

My wife never locks her car, day or night. We can walk the dog, or just ourselves, at Midnight or later.......no problem. No drug houses in the area, no wild parties, pro-gun folks all over.

I talk with many people because of my business and the same theme is prevalent......"we moved from Calif. or Wa. to find decent people and low crime." No place is totally safe, but it's a lot safer here then many parts of the US.
 
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I just hope they leave their awful taste in leaders behind when they leave their collectivist ****hole states behind.
 
I can understand why they would flee. I just don't understand why they bring their voting habits with them. How can so many people not see the relationship between who they vote for, and the policies they have to live with?

because in general people are stupid.
 

Really?

In 2012, 62,702 people moved from California to Texas, but 43,005 moved from Texas to California, for a net migration of just 19,697. That’s a population flow amounting to the movement of one village in a continental nation.

And when it comes to taxes in Texas:

But here’s one important fact that Texas’ conservative and libertarian boosters reliably fail to mention (perhaps because they don’t know it): If you’re not rich, Texas is not actually a low-tax state. In fact, most Texans pay more taxes than most Californians. That seems strange and incorrect at first — Texas doesn’t even have an income tax! — but it’s true. Thanks to sales and property taxes, Texas is among the states with the ten most regressive tax systems. Texans in the bottom 60 percent of income distribution all pay higher effective tax rates than their Californian counterparts. Texas’ top one-percent are the ones enjoying the supposed low-tax utopia, paying an effective rate of 3.2 percent. The rate for the lowest 20 percent is 12.6 percent.

blog_taxes_texas_california.jpg

And are businesses really leaving California in droves? Apparently not.

Companies leaving is never good news, but Toyota (which relocated to Texas) wasn’t representative of a larger trend. It was the outlier, according to a new report from Beacon Economics.

“More businesses are coming than going, which is why we have this positive job growth number,” said Beacon Economics founding partner Chris Thornberg, referring to the 93,000 jobs added in Los Angeles last year, which places it squarely in the middle of the pack of major metropolitan areas.

"There's some really high-profile companies moving into the region," Thornberg said.

Mercedes-Benz and Virgin Galactic both announced major expansions in Long Beach last year, which will bring good, high-paying jobs to the area.
 
Someone else posted this same story and it was just as dumb then as it is now.

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.

Show the cause of this exodus using real data, not just two lines on a graph that may or may not have anything to do with each other. What should be being shown would things like (these are just examples of possibilities, not my claims of facts):
People are leaving because of high taxes and Dem. ran cities have higher taxes.
People are leaving because of increased criminal activity in Dem. ran cities where the Dem. leadership has hamstrung LE.
 
Kind of a meme around here is, why would anyone want to live in western Wa.? High taxes, liberals up the ass, ridiculous $15 an hour minimum wage for uneducated boobs(I mean $15 for a burger flipper...that's nuts), so many anti-gun folks, outrageous gun control laws, too many ethnic criminals(especially around Tacoma).

In addition to that, your map is 5 years old and put out only a year after obummer's policies started ruining the US.

Sure, it's a beautiful place to live, I use to visit often when I had inlaws there...my x-brotherinlaw and his wife were entrenched in the Demo Party, addicted to the NY Times and he, the youngest mayor of Tacoma. Nice people....but liberals to the max. I would not discuss anything political when staying at their house.
It actually made me sad, that they were so nice, yet....so liberal.



You got it. I use to live in the SF Bay Area and really miss the near perfect weather there, but I don't miss the loss of certain Freedoms those folks have.
I talked to a cop in Nv. 2 years ago, who moved from LA........he said the same things.

You asked but did not answer your own question: why would anyone want to live in western Washington? But so many do, and so many more keep coming here every year. You look at the politics with something akin to despair...but you're not asking why it is, if our politics are so horrible here, why our entire region maintaining a standard of living that's among the best in the nation. You're not asking why it is that, if it's so horrible here with the politics and the economy, why the people who come here, stay here. You did not ask why our standard of living here is consistently IMPROVING, instead of getting worse because of those oh-so-terrible progressive policies.

Me, I ask a lot of questions of all sides...which is probably why I'm no longer the strong conservative that I was raised as, that I was until my late 20's.
 
Someone else posted this same story and it was just as dumb then as it is now.

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION.

Show the cause of this exodus using real data, not just two lines on a graph that may or may not have anything to do with each other. What should be being shown would things like (these are just examples of possibilities, not my claims of facts):
People are leaving because of high taxes and Dem. ran cities have higher taxes.
People are leaving because of increased criminal activity in Dem. ran cities where the Dem. leadership has hamstrung LE.

I strongly agree. Facts, not simple correlations. Well said.
 
Nothing funnier than a leftist totally caught up in his own self imposed delusions.

Norquist and those who are foolish enough to swallow his organization's not-so-clever lies are just more evidence of the validity of the old saw that there's a sucker born every minute. And I figure many of those unfortunates will eventually move to Texass, the state that surely contains the highest concentration of chumps and patsies.

Income migration analyses ignore that the vast majority of people can’t take their income with them to a new state because they work for someone else. When people leave a state, they usually also leave their job. The income they made in that job then typically goes to the person who gets that job next; it does not leave the state.

These analyses also ignore the income gains that accrue to other in-state small businesses when business owners move away. For example, if a New York doctor in private practice retires and moves to Florida, his or her patients ― and their payments ― will go to some other New York provider, increasing that provider's income. Also, the owner of a successful business who leaves will often sell it to someone who will continue to operate it. "Income migration" analyses miss these realities because they focus only on people who move from one state to another, ignoring what happens to the incomes of people who don’t move.

These analyses also do not trace what happens to the income of a person after he or she leaves a state. Income migration proponents effectively assume that the income of a person who leaves a state will stay the same after the move, even if the person doesn’t find a job in the new location or is moving there to retire. That assumption further skews their results. For example, when someone from New Jersey retires to Florida, income migration analyses claim that New Jersey's economy lost income equal to the person's pre-retirement salary, even though their income probably would have declined even if they had stayed in New Jersey.

Other shortcomings in income migration analyses further exaggerate the size of interstate income flows. For example, some people leave a state but continue to work there. These people usually continue to contribute to the economy and tax revenue base of the state where they still work, even though their home is now elsewhere. Income migration analyses exaggerate the income lost to the worker’s old home state by effectively claiming that all of their income is lost to the economies of the states from which they moved.

To be sure, some income does automatically follow a person when he or she leaves a state — pensions, Social Security, and investment earnings, for example. But they represent a relatively small share of total taxable income — under one-fifth in most states. And, as with other forms of income, much of such income that is "lost" to a state when people move out is replaced by income "gained" when others move in.

Policymakers should focus their attention on the policy choices most likely to grow the incomes of their current and future residents, and not be distracted by misleading claims about income migration. The chief policy prescription that the income migration concept is used to justify — deep cuts in (or outright repeal of) state income taxes — would likely prove self-defeating, leading to deteriorating K-12 education, state universities, parks, roads, public safety, and other services that make states places where businesses want to invest and where the engineers, managers, and other personnel they need to hire want to live. — "State 'Income Migration' Claims Are Deeply Flawed," Center on Budget and Policy Priorities, Oct 20, 2014​

For a thorough debunking of the approach taken in this latest ATR crap, see also "State Taxes Have a Negligible Impact on Americans' Interstate Moves," CBPP, May 21, 2014

I look forward to the usual dismissive and unsubstantial LOLs we get from uninformed dolts who confuse true conservatism with their own uninformed, superficial, and hackneyed attitudes.

Show the cause of this exodus using real data, not just two lines on a graph that may or may not have anything to do with each other.

They can't. Their theory would not be supported.
 
Really?

In 2012, 62,702 people moved from California to Texas, but 43,005 moved from Texas to California, for a net migration of just 19,697. That’s a population flow amounting to the movement of one village in a continental nation.

And when it comes to taxes in Texas:

But here’s one important fact that Texas’ conservative and libertarian boosters reliably fail to mention (perhaps because they don’t know it): If you’re not rich, Texas is not actually a low-tax state. In fact, most Texans pay more taxes than most Californians. That seems strange and incorrect at first — Texas doesn’t even have an income tax! — but it’s true. Thanks to sales and property taxes, Texas is among the states with the ten most regressive tax systems. Texans in the bottom 60 percent of income distribution all pay higher effective tax rates than their Californian counterparts. Texas’ top one-percent are the ones enjoying the supposed low-tax utopia, paying an effective rate of 3.2 percent. The rate for the lowest 20 percent is 12.6 percent.

View attachment 67189491

And are businesses really leaving California in droves? Apparently not.

Companies leaving is never good news, but Toyota (which relocated to Texas) wasn’t representative of a larger trend. It was the outlier, according to a new report from Beacon Economics.

“More businesses are coming than going, which is why we have this positive job growth number,” said Beacon Economics founding partner Chris Thornberg, referring to the 93,000 jobs added in Los Angeles last year, which places it squarely in the middle of the pack of major metropolitan areas.

"There's some really high-profile companies moving into the region," Thornberg said.

Mercedes-Benz and Virgin Galactic both announced major expansions in Long Beach last year, which will bring good, high-paying jobs to the area.

Report: 254 companies left California in 2011 - The Orange County Register

It's no wonder people and businesses are bailing on California....

California by the numbers « Hot Air
 
You asked but did not answer your own question: why would anyone want to live in western Washington? But so many do, and so many more keep coming here every year. You look at the politics with something akin to despair...but you're not asking why it is, if our politics are so horrible here, why our entire region maintaining a standard of living that's among the best in the nation. You're not asking why it is that, if it's so horrible here with the politics and the economy, why the people who come here, stay here. You did not ask why our standard of living here is consistently IMPROVING, instead of getting worse because of those oh-so-terrible progressive policies.

Me, I ask a lot of questions of all sides...which is probably why I'm no longer the strong conservative that I was raised as, that I was until my late 20's.

I've been to Sea/Tac many times....I like a lot about it...except all the people and waaaay too many liberals. I use to be liberal, living just outside SF for 30 years......in 1975, I switched from Demo, as I was raised, to Republican.......the only one in my entire family.
I could never live in Portland and can't go back to Calif and be a real gun owner any longer with all the restrictions on my firearms freedom. Even Oregon is getting too restrictive and with a bunch of liberal dopes in control of the legislature, it's only going to get worse.
I didn't ask the question, because I know the answer...it's just not for me and I want nothing to do with high prices on goods, high taxation and a liberal run city, county and state govt.
Portland/Salem are way too liberal as well, but I live in one of the most conservative, pro-gun counties in Oregon...and so far, I can handle that.
 
Show the cause of this exodus using real data, not just two lines on a graph that may or may not have anything to do with each other.

Well, I'm just one point on a graph but the "real data" in my case is that my wife has already accepted a job in Dallas and I've negotiated with my employer to work remotely and we will be putting our house in New Jersey up for sale this coming Wednesday and moving to Texas as soon as it is practical to do so.

Our reasons for the move are primarily economic.

Between state income tax and property tax we'll be saving in the low-mid five figure range a year.

Sales tax will increase slightly from 7% in NJ (where there is no sales tax on unprepared food, household paper products, medicine, or clothing) to 8.25% in TX where (I believe) there is tax on everything.

All things considered we should experience a significant net decrease in taxes.

My understanding is that we will also experience an across-the-board ~20% decrease in cost of living.

Real estate wise we're figuring that for the same mortgage we'll be looking at an additional 500 to 1000 sq/ft as well as an in ground swimming pool.

Education wise we will be moving our children from a greatschool.org rated 6 school system (that rating being an aggregate of all various K-12 ratings) to one of several school systems which are rate 8.5 - 9.0.

"Freedom" and "liberty" are also issues that concern me, though not so much my wife, so they were only tangential to or decision. All the same, I'll be moving from #49 on the John Locke Foundation Freedom Index to #12, a major improvement (though that index primarily takes in to account the things I've already mentioned). A bonus is that there's probably a lot lower chance that I'll spend the rest of my life in prison if I ever have to shoot someone in self defense. I'm not a big gun nut, but I'm a realist and the fact is that in NJ "being tried by 12 rather than carried by 6" is a very real concern where you shouldn't really have to worry overmuch about either in the event of a home invasion.

Crime isn't too much of an issue where I live now, in the NW NJ suburbs, but it won't be too much of a consideration in the part of TX I'm planning on moving to either.
 
In 2013, more than 200,000 people on net fled states with Democrat governors for ones run by Republicans, according to an analysis of newly released IRS data by Americans for Tax Reform.

"People move away from high tax states to low tax states. Every tax refugee is sending a powerful message to politicians," said ATR President Grover Norquist. "They are voting with their feet. Leaders in Texas and Florida are listening. New York and California are not."

https://www.atr.org/taxpayers-fleeing-democrat-run-states-republican-ones

Yep, I know a few who've done exactly that, then they come back to the high tax state for medical care because those states with higher taxes have spent so much on their university medical centers and such and are much better than low tax states. The only exception I can think of is the SW Medical center in San Antonio which was equally funded by UT (not red, but very blue) and the corresponding 5 Air Forces bases in the area which are funded by tax payers.
 
Yep, I know a few who've done exactly that, then they come back to the high tax state for medical care because those states with higher taxes have spent so much on their university medical centers and such and are much better than low tax states.

I plan on doing that to some extent as well.

My 3-year-old was born with a misalignment (for lack of a better term) of muscles in his left eye, has already had two surgeries (one this summer and one last), and will probably need at least one more.

His pediatric ophthalmologist is world class and I have no intention of changing things up especially given their history.

I also have a back surgeon here that I would probably come back to should the need ever arise.

I don't see that as a "strike" against moving to Texas.

I never vacation in NJ because, though the NJ shore is known as a vacation destination, in comparison to other places I'd like to be it doesn't hold a candle.

No big deal.

Some times we have to travel in order to get the things we want and have them be of the quality we expect.

I'm fine with the idea.
 
With a population exceeding 300 million, 200,000 people is less than %0.066
 
I plan on doing that to some extent as well.

My 3-year-old was born with a misalignment (for lack of a better term) of muscles in his left eye, has already had two surgeries (one this summer and one last), and will probably need at least one more.

His pediatric ophthalmologist is world class and I have no intention of changing things up especially given their history.

I also have a back surgeon here that I would probably come back to should the need ever arise.

I don't see that as a "strike" against moving to Texas.

I never vacation in NJ because, though the NJ shore is known as a vacation destination, in comparison to other places I'd like to be it doesn't hold a candle.

No big deal.

Some times we have to travel in order to get the things we want and have them be of the quality we expect.

I'm fine with the idea.
When you want the benefits of high taxes but don't want to live where the taxes are higher, and that's the reason you live where the taxes are lower, then you are a hypocrite. /discussion
 
Was this study about taxpayers, or corporations? That makes a huge difference. Also, I'll add that the biggest indicator of poverty is cost of housing. If this study is about average people, this could be the issue.
 
When you want the benefits of high taxes but don't want to live where the taxes are higher, and that's the reason you live where the taxes are lower, then you are a hypocrite. /discussion

The benefits of High taxes ?

What would that be ? Bad local economy ? Massive debt ? Losing your tax base and Bussineses ?

You know what's hypocritical ? California is trying to Copy Texas's plan to lure Businesses and jobs BACK to their State with tax incentives.

It won't work of-course.
 
................just sayin'...............
10527592_10152608701929255_1369650406388057920_n.jpg
 
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