• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

150 Days: Treasury Says Debt Has Been Frozen at $18,112,975,000,000

That's the problem. The "debt" is completely sustainable.

Lol !!

You have no idea what you're talking about .

Japan has been debasing their citizens currency through unprecedented QE in attempt to keep their " debt sustainable ".

A few point rate hike would equate National insolvency
 
Lol !!

You have no idea what you're talking about .

Japan has been debasing their citizens currency through unprecedented QE in attempt to keep their " debt sustainable ".

A few point rate hike would equate National insolvency

National debt is total outstanding treasuries. These bonds, have different lifetimes. This means that not all of them expire at the same time. Some need to be pay out at the beginning of the day, while the majority of the debt is still withstanding. The treasury takes, let's say 100 dollars, and pays 70 dollars in expired treasuries. 30 dollars is deficit spent. They are going to receive 20 dollars the following year in taxes from the expired treasuries, so they take 20 dollars and credit back to the treasury's account from current taxes. The remaining 80 dollars is printed as treasuries, and they are bought. If you notice in this example, more treasuries were created than what was paid out. This is our current practice. If we take a more austerical route, then the tax credit could increase, less would be deficit spent, or both, but the overall procedure still remains. Also, it is to note, that the treasury pretty much has the same amount of money every day, until it receives a deposit from The Fed yearly. This means the treasury can expand the overall debt and use the same amount of money. They are just printing more than that which are expiring using the procedure above.

Also, if the treasury ever needs money, they can just print bonds to the fed, however, it is expected for that money to be paid back at interest.

How can investors and private banks buy more and more bonds? Deficit spending. Deficit spending continually increases bank reserves, which allows for more and more lending, which expands the money supply, which allows people to "make it" or if they have already made it, to make even more money. This allows the private sector to buy an ever increasing amount of debt. Loans. The buying of the treasuries allows the treasury to stay current with their account while deficit spending, which in turn increases reserves, which allows the purchase of more treasuries, which allows deficit spending, which makes more loans. It's a feedback loop. And now, realizing this basic knowledge, you can see how detrimental capping the national debt would be. It literally stops this whole feedback loop. And what would happen, is what I spelled out in that previous post.

It's completely sustainable. If you need evidence look at the fact that we are 18 trillion dollars in debt, and I can still buy stuff. The whole economy is still running. If it is so bad, then why hasn't it collapsed?

The Fed actually doesn't own as much debt as you think it does. Also, it is in it to make a profit. It takes the interest it makes on its assets, or government debt, and then turns it into a computerized system that trades currencies. They also receive interest from banks who take out loans, and they receive fees for certain services they provide for banks. At a certain point of the year, The Fed determines its expenses, which I am presuming includes insane salaries, and after that is done, the rest is sent to the treasury. This expands the overall account that the treasury has. Which means it can print more, it can pay off the ever increasing debt that it is printing, and it can deficit spend more while keeping accounts current. In theory, over time, the amount of taxes the treasury receives increases due to economic growth or policy change, or both. This means less has to be printed to satisfy their accounts.

In a more basic sense, is if the treasury can't print, banks eventually stop lending. That, is when things get very bad.

In a fundamental sense, realize that not all of the debt expires at the same time. So the treasury can take the same amount of money and expand the debt while deficit spending.
 
National debt is total outstanding treasuries. These bonds, have different lifetimes. This means that not all of them expire at the same time. Some need to be pay out at the beginning of the day, while the majority of the debt is still withstanding. The treasury takes, let's say 100 dollars, and pays 70 dollars in expired treasuries. 30 dollars is deficit spent. They are going to receive 20 dollars the following year in taxes from the expired treasuries, so they take 20 dollars and credit back to the treasury's account from current taxes. The remaining 80 dollars is printed as treasuries, and they are bought. If you notice in this example, more treasuries were created than what was paid out. This is our current practice. If we take a more austerical route, then the tax credit could increase, less would be deficit spent, or both, but the overall procedure still remains. Also, it is to note, that the treasury pretty much has the same amount of money every day, until it receives a deposit from The Fed yearly. This means the treasury can expand the overall debt and use the same amount of money. They are just printing more than that which are expiring using the procedure above.

Also, if the treasury ever needs money, they can just print bonds to the fed, however, it is expected for that money to be paid back at interest.

How can investors and private banks buy more and more bonds? Deficit spending. Deficit spending continually increases bank reserves, which allows for more and more lending, which expands the money supply, which allows people to "make it" or if they have already made it, to make even more money. This allows the private sector to buy an ever increasing amount of debt. Loans. The buying of the treasuries allows the treasury to stay current with their account while deficit spending, which in turn increases reserves, which allows the purchase of more treasuries, which allows deficit spending, which makes more loans. It's a feedback loop. And now, realizing this basic knowledge, you can see how detrimental capping the national debt would be. It literally stops this whole feedback loop. And what would happen, is what I spelled out in that previous post.

It's completely sustainable. If you need evidence look at the fact that we are 18 trillion dollars in debt, and I can still buy stuff. The whole economy is still running. If it is so bad, then why hasn't it collapsed?

The Fed actually doesn't own as much debt as you think it does. Also, it is in it to make a profit. It takes the interest it makes on its assets, or government debt, and then turns it into a computerized system that trades currencies. They also receive interest from banks who take out loans, and they receive fees for certain services they provide for banks. At a certain point of the year, The Fed determines its expenses, which I am presuming includes insane salaries, and after that is done, the rest is sent to the treasury. This expands the overall account that the treasury has. Which means it can print more, it can pay off the ever increasing debt that it is printing, and it can deficit spend more while keeping accounts current. In theory, over time, the amount of taxes the treasury receives increases due to economic growth or policy change, or both. This means less has to be printed to satisfy their accounts.

In a more basic sense, is if the treasury can't print, banks eventually stop lending. That, is when things get very bad.

In a fundamental sense, realize that not all of the debt expires at the same time. So the treasury can take the same amount of money and expand the debt while deficit spending.


Nonsense, excessive debt comes with consequences

Whether its here, or in Japan or in Venezuela ( printing has worked wonders for them..Lol ) you cannot escape the fiscal and economic dangers of unsustainable Government spending.

The fact that we are this amount of debt and haven't experienced the consequences from excessive inflation speaks to the dire economic conditions that we still face after 7 years of a disastrous Obama Presidency
 
Nonsense, excessive debt comes with consequences...

Not when the entity with the debt can legally print money, at virtually no cost and virtually without limit.

What is "excess debt" anyhow, and out does that differ from any other type of debt?
 
Not when the entity with the debt can legally print money, at virtually no cost and virtually without limit.

What is "excess debt" anyhow, and out does that differ from any other type of debt?

Venezuela.....
 
Not when the entity with the debt can legally print money, at virtually no cost and virtually without limit.

What is "excess debt" anyhow, and out does that differ from any other type of debt?

you say virtually, but this is far from the truth.

it already failed once. In the early 70's we were called on the carpet for our reckless spending at the expense of foreign countries, which is precisely what this is. That we can import cheap goods and export depreciating dollars and get away with it because of our vast military might isn't something I am personally proud of.
 
Back
Top Bottom