High Taxes Cost America Jobs

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reluc...-012044378.html;_ylt=AwrSyCV3wMVTlGoA89CamolQ

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

Greedy corporations who don't feel the millions and millions they pay themselves are the reason why higher taxes cost jobs. They want all of us to pay for their lifestyle, not the other way around.

CalGun said:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reluc...-012044378.html;_ylt=AwrSyCV3wMVTlGoA89CamolQ

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

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If Heather Bresch was struggling to pay her employees and not making enough to pay herself any money I would agree with that sentiment.She acquired another company,so apparently she is not struggling. This mean ol government making us pay high taxes is a load of crap,especially seeing how companies pass those costs onto the consumers who pay for their products much like they do with the cost of fuel, materials, labor and other costs.

Capster78 said:

Greedy corporations who don't feel the millions and millions they pay themselves are the reason why higher taxes cost jobs. They want all of us to pay for their lifestyle, not the other way around.

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Seriously? Have you ever run a business? I do. Have you ever had to make a payroll? I do.

"Greedy" corporations that have to compete for every dollar they earn with other "greedy" corporations in a competitive market that produces everything we humans need to survive and that consumers demand the lowest price for the highest quality? As opposed to what? A "philanthropic" Federal government that doesn't earn a darn penny and takes all it's money from it's citizens by force and under pain of law if they don't pay, that doesn't create any products or build anything or produce any consumables, and then gives that money to other people so they can buy stuff from the "greedy" corporations like food, clothing, medicine (like this company), housing, water, fuel, electricity and every dang thing else?

Yup. It's those evil greedy corporations that are to blame. Not that they have a lot of choices. Either they conform to the rules the government puts in place, or they go find another government that has better rules. Kinda like consumers shop around for the best price.

I would guess that you would buy everything you need at a higher price from a local merchant at full price rather than shop around because you feel loyalty and a need to support your local community. I would also assume you never buy anything that was produced or manufactured overseas, contains material produced in a foreign country or from a company that has international ownership, or buy vegetables in wintertime because a heck of a lot of those come from Central America, even a lot of those sold in Florida. I'm sure you never shop around for the lowest price, and never buy anything on sale, but demand to pay fulls price for everything. I'm truly impressed.

But yeah, it's just those greedy corporations.

Nope. You should look at the details. They bought the other business because it wasn't American. They will still pay US corp taxes on US sales, but are tired of having to pay on their Intl business at Americas rates so by purchasing a foreign co they can change their base of operations to a nation that has reasoned rates.

Business doesn't exist for the benefit do idiot leftist that take all they want and buy votes of those who don't bother to try. They are in it for their investors, employees and those who take risk and work hard....not grubbynutt.

jamesrage said:

If Heather Bresch was struggling to pay her employees and not making enough to pay herself any money I would agree with that sentiment.She acquired another company,so apparently she is not struggling. This mean ol government making us pay high taxes is a load of crap,especially seeing how companies pass those costs onto the consumers who pay for their products much like they do with the cost of fuel, materials, labor and other costs.

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And you call yourself a " centrist ". Laughable ... You should join the socialist and be honest with yourself.

Capster78 said:

Greedy corporations who don't feel the millions and millions they pay themselves are the reason why higher taxes cost jobs. They want all of us to pay for their lifestyle, not the other way around.

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CalGun said:

And you call yourself a " centrist ". Laughable ... You should join the socialist and be honest with yourself.

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Do you realize what you just said? A contradiction.

One cannot be honest and also be a socialist. The two are mutually exclusive. Socialism is based on stealing, which, by definition, is dishonest.

CalGun said:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reluc...-012044378.html;_ylt=AwrSyCV3wMVTlGoA89CamolQ

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

Click to expand...

25%. Mylan only paid an effective 25% tax rate and that apparently that doesn't include all the tax breaks and deductions. If those were included Mylan was probably only paying around 5% to 15% in taxes.


From the OP....

"...Ms. Bresch, who said the company’s current effective tax rate is about 25 percent, said the rate would come down to 21 percent in the first year of the deal and then move into the high teens after three to five years. Mylan will continue to pay taxes in the United States on its domestic profits, but not on its business operations abroad...."


I don't think lowering the tax rate would have kept a patriot like Ms. Bresch in the US. Her company Mylan acquired a foreign company and that opens a new market for them. That she had to bash her country on her way out just makes me want to boycott her products.

Capster78 said:

Greedy corporations who don't feel the millions and millions they pay themselves are the reason why higher taxes cost jobs. They want all of us to pay for their lifestyle, not the other way around.

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Lol, yeah, because expecting them to take a pay cut is entirely realistic. They are in business for themselves, just like you work for yourself, and that is kind of the whole thing about life. We do things to get some sort of reward, not because hey, it's awesome to work and spend countless hours running a business, so lets make very little doing it!

Its not just high taxes, the US is one of a handful of countries that double taxes their citizens when they work overseas. Sad, really. :roll:

CalGun said:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reluc...-012044378.html;_ylt=AwrSyCV3wMVTlGoA89CamolQ

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

Click to expand...

A. America doesn't have a 35% corporate tax-rate. The statutory rate, without deductions, credits, etc. is 35% but the effective rate is far lower. In fact, many big profitable corporations pay no taxes.
B. Taxes don't kill or create jobs either, since taxes are paid on profits. Nobody doesn't try to earn a profit because they may pay a portion in taxes. Likewise, nobody hires employees they don't need because their taxes are lower. Nobody fires needed employees because the tax-rates rose.

Do you really think Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg cared about the tax-rates when they created their respective companies? Do you think they even knew what they were?

In total, corporations only paid $80 billion in taxes, in a $16 trillion economy -- that's 5%.

MTA beat me to it - this is about profit margin, not the cost of business.

That said. I'll continue to be an advocate for very low or zero corporate taxes. A message that says america really is the best place to do business - especially to start one. The caveat is that such a corporate rate must come with a strongly progressive personal income tax system to make up the difference.

MTAtech said:

Taxes don't kill or create jobs either, since taxes are paid on profits. Nobody doesn't try to earn a profit because they may pay a portion in taxes. Likewise, nobody hires employees they don't need because their taxes are lower. Nobody fires needed employees because the tax-rates rose.

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No they just move to Texas to get a lower tax rate.

And remember Eduardo Saverin, the guy from facebook

Facebook co-founder renounces U.S. citizenship - May. 11, 2012

MTAtech said:

A. America doesn't have a 35% corporate tax-rate. The statutory rate, without deductions, credits, etc. is 35% but the effective rate is far lower. In fact, many big profitable corporations pay no taxes.
B. Taxes don't kill or create jobs either, since taxes are paid on profits. Nobody doesn't try to earn a profit because they may pay a portion in taxes. Likewise, nobody hires employees they don't need because their taxes are lower. Nobody fires needed employees because the tax-rates rose.

Do you really think Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg cared about the tax-rates when they created their respective companies? Do you think they even knew what they were?

In total, corporations only paid $80 billion in taxes, in a $16 trillion economy -- that's 5%.

Click to expand...

You are quite misinformed regarding your second point.

A viable growing business pays extreme attention to the tax consequences of actions it takes. Questions such as when to book sales, when to incur new capital expenditures are all related to taxes. Tax dollars are based on profits and represent a massive amount of effort to generate. They require investment, sales, raw material, manpower, business plans, refocus, overcoming obstacles, etc., etc. These dollars extract a significant effort, and they are near and dear to the ongoing success of a company. If I need $10 to expand my company, but through poor execution, have to pay $5 of that in taxes, I don't expand my company.

It's unfortunate so many who want to comment on the subject are so uninformed on it's many consequences.

CalGun said:

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

Click to expand...

They aren't moving jobs overseas. They're exploiting a corporate tax loophole.

Mylan is buying Abbot Labs (a generic drug manufacturer) for $5.6 billion, and on that basis is doing an "inversion." They're reincorporating in the Netherlands to get a lower US tax rate.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/07...t-for-5-3-billion/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

I don't have an axe to grind against big companies. But the CEO's sob story falls a bit flat.

We should also note that the corporate tax rate in the Netherlands is also 25%.

What you don't think - isn't the reality. I enjoy your opinion, you are certainly welcome to it as I am mine, but the facts are clear that tax policy had much to do with this decision.

Moot said:

25%. Mylan only paid an effective 25% tax rate and that apparently that doesn't include all the tax breaks and deductions. If those were included Mylan was probably only paying around 5% to 15% in taxes.


From the OP....

"...Ms. Bresch, who said the company’s current effective tax rate is about 25 percent, said the rate would come down to 21 percent in the first year of the deal and then move into the high teens after three to five years. Mylan will continue to pay taxes in the United States on its domestic profits, but not on its business operations abroad...."


I don't think lowering the tax rate would have kept a patriot like Ms. Bresch in the US. Her company Mylan acquired a foreign company and that opens a new market for them. That she had to bash her country on her way out just makes me want to boycott her products.

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You funny leftist are hilarious.

Sentence 1. America doesn't have a 35% corporate tax-rate.

Sentence 2. The statutory rate, without deductions, credits, etc. is 35% but the effective rate is far lower.

MTAtech said:

A. America doesn't have a 35% corporate tax-rate. The statutory rate, without deductions, credits, etc. is 35% but the effective rate is far lower. In fact, many big profitable corporations pay no taxes.
B. Taxes don't kill or create jobs either, since taxes are paid on profits. Nobody doesn't try to earn a profit because they may pay a portion in taxes. Likewise, nobody hires employees they don't need because their taxes are lower. Nobody fires needed employees because the tax-rates rose.

Do you really think Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Mark Zuckerberg cared about the tax-rates when they created their respective companies? Do you think they even knew what they were?

In total, corporations only paid $80 billion in taxes, in a $16 trillion economy -- that's 5%.

Click to expand...

Well they claim its 21% so I guess you'd be wrong, and to suggest it doesn't cost American's jobs is just plain silly. Ask the accountants, lawyers and related professionals that work for them who did their work for the American Corp. who'll be doing the same work for the Corp in another country - jobs are lost.

Visbek said:

They aren't moving jobs overseas. They're exploiting a corporate tax loophole.

Mylan is buying Abbot Labs (a generic drug manufacturer) for $5.6 billion, and on that basis is doing an "inversion." They're reincorporating in the Netherlands to get a lower US tax rate.

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/07...t-for-5-3-billion/?_php=true&_type=blogs&_r=0

I don't have an axe to grind against big companies. But the CEO's sob story falls a bit flat.

We should also note that the corporate tax rate in the Netherlands is also 25%.

Click to expand...

ocean515 said:

You are quite misinformed regarding your second point.

A viable growing business pays extreme attention to the tax consequences of actions it takes. Questions such as when to book sales, when to incur new capital expenditures are all related to taxes. Tax dollars are based on profits and represent a massive amount of effort to generate. They require investment, sales, raw material, manpower, business plans, refocus, overcoming obstacles, etc., etc. These dollars extract a significant effort, and they are near and dear to the ongoing success of a company. If I need $10 to expand my company, but through poor execution, have to pay $5 of that in taxes, I don't expand my company. It's unfortunate so many who want to comment on the subject are so uninformed on it's many consequences.

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First, you aren't the judge of other members' knowledge. Everyone thinks, such as you do, that your opinion and information is superior to others. It may not be so.
Second, businesses do pay a lot of attention to tax consequences and the effort they make is to make income that is from high-tax sources appear as if it is from low-tax sources, thereby reducing taxes. Ordinarily, this is done by making ordinary income look like capital gains. That doesn't mean one will not enter into a profitable investment because they have to pay any taxes. Even Warren Buffet acknowledges this and said:

I have worked with investors for 60 years and I have yet to see anyone — not even when capital gains rates were 39.9 percent in 1976-77 — shy away from a sensible investment because of the tax rate on the potential gain. People invest to make money, and potential taxes have never scared them off.

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In your example (bolded), it seems that you are stating that you are paying taxes of $5 on an investment of $10. One doesn't pay taxes on the investment. One pays taxes on the profits from the investment. If your investment yields no profits you pay no taxes, regardless of the tax-rates. If they earn some profits, you pay taxes on the gain from that investment. If your profit is great, you pay high taxes but the portion you keep is also high. Statutory tax rates of 35%, minus deductions and credits, isn't anywhere near the confiscatory rate needed to scare off investors. As I said earlier, total business taxes paid were $80 billion in a $16 trillion economy. Business taxes are low by that measure.

CalGun said:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/reluc...-012044378.html;_ylt=AwrSyCV3wMVTlGoA89CamolQ

Sold out for a 21% tax rate over Americas idiotic 35%. Just for those convinced lower taxes doesn't create jobs...well if higher taxes kill jobs then lower taxes would at least save them.

Click to expand...

The lowest unemployment rate in the US was during the Eisenhower administration, and the highest tax bracket at that time was more than 90%. Yea, I think that is overkill too, but if we want bridges that don't collapse, a decent highway system, security from gangsters through organizations like the FBI, scientific research, the best schools, the best military, etc, etc, then we are going to have to pay for them through taxes. It's either that, or we can allow the US to become a banana republic and third world nation.

MTAtech said:

First, you aren't the judge of other members' knowledge. Everyone thinks, such as you do, that your opinion and information is superior to others. It may not be so.
Second, businesses do pay a lot of attention to tax consequences and the effort they make is to make income that is from a high-tax source appear as it is from a low-tax source, thereby reducing taxes. Ordinarily, this is done by making ordinary income look like capital gains. That doesn't mean one will not enter into a profitable investment because they have to pay any taxes. Even Warren Buffet acknowledges this and said:

In your example (bolded), it seems that you are stating that you are paying taxes of $5 on an investment of $10. One doesn't pay taxes on the investment. One pays taxes on the profits from the investment. If your investment yields no profits you pay no taxes. If they earn some profits, you pay taxes on the gain from that investment. Statutory tax rates of 35%, minus deductions and credits, isn't anywhere near the confiscatory rate needed to scare off investors. As I said earlier, total business taxes paid were $80 billion in a $16 trillion economy. Business taxes are low by that measure.

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Sorry, but you've misinterpreted my post. I simply stated that if I needed $10 to expand my company, but only had $5 left because of taxes, I wouldn't expand my company.

These are fundamental aspects of running a company and the reason why so much effort is made to limit tax liability. Your view of taxes and how they impact business is simply not supported by facts. Tax consequences are a fundamental part of operating a business.

ocean515 said:

You are quite misinformed regarding your second point.

A viable growing business pays extreme attention to the tax consequences of actions it takes. Questions such as when to book sales, when to incur new capital expenditures are all related to taxes. Tax dollars are based on profits and represent a massive amount of effort to generate. They require investment, sales, raw material, manpower, business plans, refocus, overcoming obstacles, etc., etc. These dollars extract a significant effort, and they are near and dear to the ongoing success of a company. If I need $10 to expand my company, but through poor execution, have to pay $5 of that in taxes, I don't expand my company.

It's unfortunate so many who want to comment on the subject are so uninformed on it's many consequences.

Click to expand...

You're making the same mistake that many others have. You don't make improvements to your company with after-corporate-tax dollars. Improvements/expenses actually reduce your tax exposure:

pdog said:

Profit by your definition would be:
R-O-T=P

Which you simplify to:
R-O = P

This is NOT correct. The correct equation is:
(R-O)*(1-T) = P

Taxes are applied AFTER other operating costs and cannot be lumped together by simple rules of mathematics. My assertion still stands: Corporate taxes should actually encourage internal investment on a company by company basis with the desire to reduce tax exposure, at least when it comes to the "ability" to hire another person. This makes the idea that a company CAN'T hire because of corporate taxes a non-starter.

This same assertion came up in another thread and went unanswered:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/gover...0-lowering-taxes-does-not-create-jobs-30.html

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CalGun said:

What you don't think - isn't the reality. I enjoy your opinion, you are certainly welcome to it as I am mine, but the facts are clear that tax policy had much to do with this decision.

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So buying a foreign company had nothing to do with it? Is that your reality?

pdog said:

You're making the same mistake that many others have. You don't make improvements to your company with after-corporate-tax dollars. Improvements/expenses actually reduce your tax exposure:

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No I'm not. But I appreciate the effort to articulate what you think you understand. I would caution you about trying to run an ongoing business based on what you are suggesting on this thread.

ocean515 said:

Sorry, but you've misinterpreted my post. I simply stated that if I needed $10 to expand my company, but only had $5 left because of taxes, I wouldn't expand my company.

These are fundamental aspects of running a company and the reason why so much effort is made to limit tax liability. Your view of taxes and how they impact business is simply not supported by facts. Tax consequences are a fundamental part of operating a business.

Click to expand...

The CEO of Mylan is a liar.


Mylan Laboratories (MYL) Effective Tax Rate starting from first quarter 2014 to first quarter 2013, Profitability Trends and Ranking, Fundamental Ratios - CSIMarket


The highest effective tax rate that her company paid last year in 2013 was 22.77 % during the first quarter and the lowest was 6.34 % during the fourth quarter. They paid 23.14 % for the first quarter in 2014.

Mylan is actually paying lower taxes in the US than they will in the Netherlands. Hope the door doesn't hit them in the ass on their way out.