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Food Stamp Cuts: Riots?

Fisher said:
Buy an acre of land, a pig, and build a shanty and you will start off ahead of where most of our ancestors had to work their way to.
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A "shanty" building permit starts at around $100,000 dollars here in San Diego.

The idea that lives were drastically harder prior to "civilization" is overstated. Not one hunter gatherer culture spent a quarter of their gross effort their entire working lives on shelter alone. Most provided their needs in 20-30 hours a week on average. Island peoples less, temperate climates more, hostile climates the most. Lives were short due to parasites and bacteria, not starvation/deprivation.
 
What if...? said:
A "shanty" building permit starts at around $100,000 dollars here in San Diego.

The idea that lives were drastically harder prior to "civilization" is overstated. Not one hunter gatherer culture spent a quarter of their gross effort their entire working lives on shelter alone. Most provided their needs in 20-30 hours a week on average. Island peoples less, temperate climates more, hostile climates the most. Lives were short due to parasites and bacteria, not starvation/deprivation.
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I am talking about people 4-6 generations ago who had no running water, electricity, and heated their homes with wood they chopped, ate the food they grew/hunted mostly, and did not need LBJ to save the day, not freaking cavemen :doh
 
Middleground said:
Nothing will get the public to revolt more--aside from taking away basic freedom-- is when the government takes away basic necessities for life. Food, water, shelter or a combo of all.
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You're right. And since ice cream, candy, cookies, crackers and soft drinks aren't basic necessities of life, how do you feel about us taking those away? Eligible Food Items
 
What if...? said:
A "shanty" building permit starts at around $100,000 dollars here in San Diego.

The idea that lives were drastically harder prior to "civilization" is overstated. Not one hunter gatherer culture spent a quarter of their gross effort their entire working lives on shelter alone. Most provided their needs in 20-30 hours a week on average. Island peoples less, temperate climates more, hostile climates the most. Lives were short due to parasites and bacteria, not starvation/deprivation.
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Feel free to move back to that primitive lifestyle if you so choose.
 
X Factor said:
Oh yeah, I can tell, you're a real stickler for personal responsibility. Lol. Look, if you want to give aways housing and groceries or whatever, that's fine, you're not alone, but could you just not pretend to be a hard ass about it? If we did have dorms like that, I have a feling you and several others would be complaining about people living in such conditions. In fact, more than once when I point out that our poor still have it a ton better than many other places what I've gotten back is something like "yeah, but look how much better in the US others have it, it's not fair." I'm just not on board with encouraging people to feel entitled to be given to what others have worked for.
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As I would find such a program perfectly acceptable for myself if I needed it, I would be perfectly happy with it.

I made it up after all.

A better argument would be logistics. But id bet it would still be cheaper than the $38+k a year per recipient Goshin calculated.

The discomfort is there by design, why would I want to make it more comfortable?
 
Fisher said:
I am talking about people 4-6 generations ago who had no running water, electricity, and heated their homes with wood they chopped, ate the food they grew/hunted mostly, and did not need LBJ to save the day, not freaking cavemen :doh
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Pretty sure it's against building codes to build a dwelling with no water and no electricity. We're off grid, and had to have both a gas furnace AND our wood stove for heat.

And in the city, you usually can't raise chickens and pigs.

To raise a pig:
Adding it all up, you'll pay $201 for the pig and feed, $55 for the kill, and $110 for the cut-and-wrap, for a total of $366. This will yield approximately 150lbs of meat, for a cost per lb of $$2.44
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meat: How much does it cost to raise a pig: July, 2010

of course, you need a freezer to store the pig meat in .... which means power.

So are you proposing the govt buy everyone a pig?
 
oh yeah, and where are they going to find wood to chop down for their stove? And they need a chain saw ideally to do that... axes aren't very efficient.

Did you want them to actually WORK while doing this? That is, to work aside from chopping wood, tending their pig, building their house, etc.
 
American said:
What job training center did you go to to learn how to get those jobs?
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I think it's patently obvious when I refer to "job training," these aren't the kinds of jobs I'm talking about.
 
Kobie said:
I think it's patently obvious when I refer to "job training," these aren't the kinds of jobs I'm talking about.
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And not only did I make my point, but you know that there is no training center that will teach you a job more than those. Anything more requires at a minimum a community college.
 
lizzie said:
Well, capitalism is a system where one has to be assertive in some manner, in order to succeed, but it's the best model we have so far, as it incentivizes people to be productive. The farther we lean toward redistribution, the less incentive there is to be successful.

It is also something that takes initiative and foresight, to look down the road and estimate what the best future opportunities are likely to be.
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I'm not an anti-capitalist, but as long as people refuse to address the simple truth that capitalism is BY NATURE concentrative, and therefore refuse to address this structural flaw, the current trends will continue.
 
Fisher said:
I am talking about people 4-6 generations ago who had no running water, electricity, and heated their homes with wood they chopped, ate the food they grew/hunted mostly, and did not need LBJ to save the day, not freaking cavemen :doh
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So before the agricultural revolution pushed them into cities?

And they didn't pay 25% of their gross output for shelter alone either. (Until they were driven into the cities for work).
 
What if...? said:
So before the agricultural revolution pushed them into cities?

And they didn't pay 25% of their gross output for shelter alone either. (Until they were driven into the cities for work).
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real estate moving from utility value to market value has nothing to do with welfare other than public housing distorts market values.
 
paddymcdougall said:
Pretty sure it's against building codes to build a dwelling with no water and no electricity. We're off grid, and had to have both a gas furnace AND our wood stove for heat.

And in the city, you usually can't raise chickens and pigs.

To raise a pig:
meat: How much does it cost to raise a pig: July, 2010

of course, you need a freezer to store the pig meat in .... which means power.

So are you proposing the govt buy everyone a pig?
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I am proposing that everybody buy themselves a pig. You do not need refrigeration to store meat or store-bought pig feed to feed pigs. That you don't know this sort of proves my point that people are too dependent on business.
 
What if...? said:
I'm not an anti-capitalist, but as long as people refuse to address the simple truth that capitalism is BY NATURE concentrative, and therefore refuse to address this structural flaw, the current trends will continue.
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Yes, that is the problem. Unfortunately, these current trends will destroy our economic viability eventually, and we will be left with nothing better to replace it. I am not unhappy with capitalism. I am capable of competing in the marketplace, and although I will never be wealthy, I can pay my bills and have a good life. I planned well for my future. Those who think it is owed to them, without any input of their own, are the ones who are at risk, but oftentimes, they put themselves there by making poor choices.
 
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Fisher said:
real estate moving from utility value to market value has nothing to do with welfare other than public housing distorts market values.
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How is a one time large effort followed by periodic maintenance, replaced by housing that costs 25% of gross output during one's productive years NOT a relative factor?
 
grip said:
It's not the first article that's a big concern, it's the >>second one << about making more cuts to SNAP, thru the Farm Bill. The second one would probably create some panic.
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It amounts to another 5% reduction, and changes in qualifications and work requirements. From what I understand they already have some work requirements, so I don't see any riots over stiffer requirements or or qualifications... And the article doesn't imply any such thing either. That was Jones doing his usual fear mongering..
 
ReformCollege said:
Really now. So what's up with these guys? Living illegally? Moving to the wilderness - turning the dream to reality by Jackie Clay
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I have friends who live off grid.

It cost a good chunk of change to do so.

And they live in an unpermitted dwelling.

Your examples paid someone for the land and acquired necessary permits or they are operating ILLEGALLY.

My skills and knowledge would make it possible for me to live off the earths bounty.

But I would have to cough up "rents" to do so. And only build what someone else can sell.
 
lizzie said:
Yes, that is the problem. Unfortunately, these current trends will destroy our economic viability eventually, and we will be left with nothing better to replace it. I am not unhappy with capitalism. I am capable of competing in the marketplace, and although I will never be wealthy, I can pay my bills and have a good life. I planned well for my future. Those who think it is owed to them, without any input of their own, are the ones who are at risk, but oftentimes, they put themselves there by making poor choices.
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I really have no sympathy for those who do nothing and expect everything.

But they make up a minority, not the totality most conservatives seem to think they do. (Not you.)

I think a real problem was the clever "greed is good" PR campaign.

Elevating being acquisitive above all other ambitions.

I think "ambition is good" is a more appropriate maxim.

I think an artist or an author or an engineer or inventor or simply a person who makes the world around them a better place, all day every day, is just as valuable to society as someone adept at gaining control of money.

Our society would flatly reject the lifestyles of most of the Great Masters as unrealistic deadbeats because most of them barely scraped by.
 
Jack Hays said:
Happy Friday, Polgara.:2wave:

I trust you had a good week and have something fun planned for the weekend.:cool:
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:thanks: I had an unusually busy week with some surprises, I'll give it that! It does keep life from getting boring, though... :mrgreen:

Happy Friday to you, Jack. :2wave:
 
What if...? said:
I really have no sympathy for those who do nothing and expect everything.

But they make up a minority, not the totality most conservatives seem to think they do. (Not you.)

I think a real problem was the clever "greed is good" PR campaign.

Elevating being acquisitive above all other ambitions.

I think "ambition is good" is a more appropriate maxim.

I think an artist or an author or an engineer or inventor or simply a person who makes the world around them a better place, all day every day, is just as valuable to society as someone adept at gaining control of money.

Our society would flatly reject the lifestyles of most of the Great Masters as unrealistic deadbeats because most of them barely scraped by.
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Good evening, What If...? :2wave:

Great post: :thumbs: :agree: There appears to be much confusion on the part of many people today who see the world they knew changing into something else. We have always had the wealthy, and also the poor. Greedy people were recognized for what they were, and looked down upon. Today they are held up as examples of something to emulate and reward? I am not talking about gaining wealth by hard work..people felt that was something to strive for! Getting a promotion at work was usually cause for a family celebration! What happened?
 
polgara said:
Good evening, What If...? :2wave:

Great post: :thumbs: :agree: There appears to be much confusion on the part of many people today who see the world they knew changing into something else. We have always had the wealthy, and also the poor. Greedy people were recognized for what they were, and looked down upon. Today they are held up as examples of something to emulate and reward? I am not talking about gaining wealth by hard work..people felt that was something to strive for! Getting a promotion at work was usually cause for a family celebration! What happened?
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Hey, polgara!
I suspect that the "greed is good" meme was born in a PR office.

It surfaced about the time the Great Divergence started, or more accuratepy when people started noticing it.

Turn what many would consider unacceptable into something to be lauded.

Like putting attractive women in parades smoking cigarettes so other women will feel cool about doing something frowned upon.

Or convincing everyone that a diamond engagement ring is a tradition, when it really wasn't any more real than Valentine's day.
 
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