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Thread: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Franklin

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    The USSC does not govern the Constitution. It's hilarious how you constantly make a balls out of basic constitutional law.
    well, its CLEAR you didn't look, i was responding to someone else who stated the preamble to me, and its power....to which there is no power.


    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Game over for tea party lumpenconstitutional theory.
    i am truly sorry that your heart of hate for your fellow man, is making you so angry, that you go out on a lark.

    but seek Jesus he will sooth your soul
    Anti - democracy advocate, whos "Standing up for Liberty"

    The known propensity of a democracy is to licentiousness which the ambitious call, and ignorant believe to be liberty . Fisher Aimes

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyNotWhyNot View Post
    So no memes, no name calling, no blaming. How should we go about getting this under control?
    Tax freedom day is April 18th this year, 5 days later than last year.
    This REFORM PARTY member considers GERRYMANDERING - a system in which our representatives choose their voters instead of the voters choosing their representatives.

  3. #33
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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyNotWhyNot View Post
    Nice standard "head in the sand" response. The number one thing that we must do to achieve effective governance is to accept reality that can't be changed. Income tax is a given that can't be reversed. So, "How would you go about 'de-politicizing' it?"
    I suppose it can be repealed or capped by Constitutional Amendment (not that that is likely.) Still reducing the scope of government would help reduce outlays and thus reduce the need of money going to government and would allow reform to be more palatable.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    You can find this very interesting paper on the irs website. Given this chart why couldn't we have the following tax rate table ?

    Top 1% pays 25% of income

    1% to 10% bracket pays 17%

    11% to 20% pays 13%

    21% to 30% pays 11%

    and so forth

    Apply the table to all income making entities - individuals, families, businesses.

    No deductions

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by head of joaquin View Post
    Yeah, forget all that stuff about public health, scientific research, and interstate highways. Let's go back to the good old economy of 1870
    Was the economy in economic disrepair in 1870? I don't think so.

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by carlinkid View Post
    Was the economy in economic disrepair in 1870? I don't think so.
    From Wikipedia
    After years of study, argument and lobbying by influential people such as Theodore Judah as to where the "eastern" terminus would be and how the cost of construction would be paid the construction and operation of a transcontinental line was authorized by the Pacific Railroad Acts of 1862 and the even more generous act of 1864[5] during the American Civil War when southern Democratic opposition in the Congress to the central route near the 42 parallel was absent. Other railroads were also authorized under much the same terms. Two railroad companies, the Union Pacific Railroad and Central Pacific Railroad, were chosen for the first transcontinental railroad and supported by 30-year U.S. guaranteed government bonds (at 6% interest). The bonds were to be issued at $16,000/mile for track laid at level grade, $32,000/mile for track laid in foothills and $48,000/mile for track laid in mountains. In addition, a 400 feet (120 m) right-of-way grant and land needed for all sidings, stations, rail yards, maintenance stations, etc. on which to build the railroad were granted. Extensive land grants of alternate sections of government-owned lands along the tracks for 10 miles (16 km) on both sides of the track--6,400 acres (2,600 ha) per mile (1.6 km) of track were granted. Grants were not allowed or given in cities or at rivers or on non-government property. While some of this land had potentially exploitable minerals, was good farm or forest land, and quite valuable, much of it was essentially valueless desert. Provisions in the Pacific Railroad Acts were made for the telegraph companies, who had just completed the First Transcontinental Telegraph in 1861, to combine their lines with the Railroad's telegraph lines as they were built. Railroad allocated land not sold in three years was to be sold at the same government price homesteads were sold at, $1.25 per 1 acre (0.40 ha) if there were any buyers. If the bonds were not repaid all remaining railroad property, including trains and tracks, were to revert to the U.S. government for disposal—they were all repaid with interest.
    Government investment in the 1860's tied the nation together and enabled a coast to coast economy to grow. Sounds something like this

    The Interstate Highway Act literally brought Americans closer together. We were connected city-to-city, town-to-town, family-to-family, as we had never been before. That law did more to bring Americans together than any other law this century – President Clinton
    Our problem is that we have not had guiding economic vision for decades so our spending is not targeted. We are simply throwing money at every social problem and perceived security problem that we can imagine and praying that those receiving the money will spend it in a way that stimulates new economy.

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by WhyNotWhyNot View Post
    You can find this very interesting paper on the irs website. Given this chart why couldn't we have the following tax rate table ?

    Top 1% pays 25% of income

    1% to 10% bracket pays 17%

    11% to 20% pays 13%

    21% to 30% pays 11%

    and so forth

    Apply the table to all income making entities - individuals, families, businesses.

    No deductions
    Why not just a national sales tax on individuals and that's it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Nowhere does it say you can own a gun, only keep and bear.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no such thing as INFRINGEMENT in the Second Amendment.

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    Why not just a national sales tax on individuals and that's it.
    Sales tax as an alternative to income tax has been a background discussion for years. Interest in it has seemed to grow and fall and then revive but it never gains enough traction for serious consideration. I think the reasons are fourfold. First, there is a strongly established general consensus tradition of raising federal revenue by levying income tax – income tax is woven into our American governance fabric. Second, until we recently became obsessed with the middle class, we were concerned with the economics of being poor. There was general consensus encompassing liberals and conservatives that we should not burden poor people with taxes. Sales tax does that. Third, we understand that the sales tax collectors are American businesses and a national sales tax will increase business overhead costs and add to the regulatory burden that is already weighing them down. Fourth, we generally accept the concept of a progressive tax rate table. Not because we want to redistribute wealth, but rather because there is a correlation between the benefits received from government and income. Consider myself as an example. It has been well established in older threads on this forum that my income is in the top 10%. My income was enabled by my Ph.D. which was paid for by a National Science Foundation research grant and made possible by a state and federal funded university laboratory. I should pay a higher rate than a middle income worker because the government enabled me more than it did the middle income worker.

    I wrote the essay “Certainty” seeking to identify very basic broad taxation principles that have consensus support in America so that we can have a foundation of agreement that we can build upon to eliminate the divisive politics built into the existing system through simplification. I believe that two of the foundation elements are that the core of our revenue raising system should be tax on income generating activities and the tax rate table should be progressive. We certainly have no consensus on thresholds, progression formula, definition of taxable entities other than individuals, whether some activities should be tax exempt, etc. But, I am convinced a group of committed individuals can treat this as a social design problem and arrive at a unifying solution that is better than our current polarizing law.

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    All true, but poor people would purchase much less then the rich and therefore pay less taxes. I believe the reason why the rich that run this country prefer income taxes is because that way the tax is directly identified by the person and if we went to a sales tax all the tax loopholes, deductions and exemptions would not be so easy to apply.
    Quote Originally Posted by Manc Skipper View Post
    Nowhere does it say you can own a gun, only keep and bear.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    There is no such thing as INFRINGEMENT in the Second Amendment.

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    Re: “In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death and taxes”–B Frank

    Quote Originally Posted by blaxshep View Post
    All true, but poor people would purchase much less then the rich and therefore pay less taxes. I believe the reason why the rich that run this country prefer income taxes is because that way the tax is directly identified by the person and if we went to a sales tax all the tax loopholes, deductions and exemptions would not be so easy to apply.
    You missed the part where a consumption tax takes a larger share of a low quintile income as compared to a higher quintile. We all have base level of spending to live, a tax on spending hits a low income person to a much greater degree.
    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Are you female for you have a comprehension problem and have to get the last word.
    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I have my opinions based on my opinions. There is no other reason for them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaPaul View Post
    I would gladly give up my vote not to be taxed...

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