• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Welfare as we know it

Welfare should be a welcomed policy by those who are concerned with issues of overpopulation because history has shown that the less poor someone is, the fewer children they have

My gut instinct is that you are assuming correlation equals causation in so far as the US goes and that is probably wrong. I suspect it is the two working parent household that drives both the decrease in births and increases in household income. Women are no longer just professional moms and work impacts their reproductive decisions.
 
Maybe it's somewhat the other way around -- the less stupid someone is, the more likely they'll secure success for themselves first before having children, and thus being better off is more correlated with not having litters of children.

But in the broader scheme, a species with plenty of food and no natural predators are susceptible to boom and bust patterns, and so your implication that meeting everyone's needs for them will address population/resource issues is ludicrous, frankly.

The facts show that what I said is true. I haven't seen anything that supports your claim about intelligence and birth rates.
 
My gut instinct is that you are assuming correlation equals causation in so far as the US goes and that is probably wrong. I suspect it is the two working parent household that drives both the decrease in births and increases in household income. Women are no longer just professional moms and work impacts their reproductive decisions.

Wrong. The correlation holds in societies where the two working parent household is not the norm.
 
Wrong. The correlation holds in societies where the two working parent household is not the norm.

Perhaps you missed the "in so far as the US" part. What causes a trend here does not necessarily cause the trend elsewhere. In places like Somalia it is because poor people have to have 15 kids just to hold out hope a couple will reach adulthood. That is certainly not true in the US for instance.
 
The facts show that what I said is true. I haven't seen anything that supports your claim about intelligence and birth rates.

Haha, "the facts show..." I love that fact stamp... very reassuring.

You identified a weak correlation and implied that providing for the needs of all is a form of population control. Very silly.
 
Perhaps you missed the "in so far as the US" part. What causes a trend here does not necessarily cause the trend elsewhere. In places like Somalia it is because poor people have to have 15 kids just to hold out hope a couple will reach adulthood. That is certainly not true in the US for instance.

There is no evidence that in the US the reduction in the birth rate is due to two working parent households. The reduction began before that become the norm.
 
If you want specifics you should go to your state's DHS or DSS website which lists the answers to these questions. however, they are mostly similar from state to state.


I agree that walls of text are too hard to read, however what I did read seemed interesting for me.

I have often wondered about what welfare really is like in the US.

My understanding is that it varies from state to state, so it is difficult to get a complete picture ... but anecdotally I have heard that in general, welfare support is less than in other comparable western nations ...

I would be interested to know some hard facts - eg ...

how much does a single woman with two children receive on welfare?

This depends on what type of welfare. You have to answer that question. If she has applied for SNAP benefits she would probably get around 170-180 dollars per person per month for food. If she is on TANF she will get somewhere around 450-550 a month. TANF does allow to be combined with both SNAP and you would also qualify for medicaid. if the woman is pregnant she would probably also be qualified for WIC which is part of SNAP. A good estimate would be that if she qualified she would get about 500-600 in food only benefits and the 450-550 in cash benefits per month.

Now she can only receive cash benefits for herself on TANF for 60 months, and most states have a requirement you have to look for work. If she loses her own personal benefits from TANF they will still pay the children's benefits until they are 19 or no longer living with the mother.

what other benefits does she receive?

Her and her children would probably qualify for medicaid. She might qualify for section 8 housing, though there is a waiting list on that from what i hear. There is also a good deal of likelihood they can get help paying their utility bill.

what free public health measures are available for children?

medicaid is there, but it technically is almost free. i do believe there is a nominal fee of a dollar or two for a visit, and most doctor's don't take medicaid.

how much is the average rent (or what proportion of her welfare payment would she expect to pay on rent)?

It is mostly irrelevant to the payment from what i have seen. It is her responsibility to find a place she can afford. There is an option for section 8 housing, but that has it's own problems if it is available at the time. the place where your rent becomes an issue in your benefits is Social Security Disability. It is there where you will receive a few hundred dollars more a month if you are responsible for your rent. For TANF it seems you get the benefits and are responsible for finding a way.
how much are some of the basic foods she would need to buy for her family?

You can survive in most places on SNAp funding if you are just concerned with eating. You cannot buy lobster and expensive steak, but you won't go hungry if you purchase smartly. They decrease the benefits of all systems as you have more people to care for because it is assumed you will combine things like food more efficiently.
what would she pay for public transport?

That has little to nothing to do with getting benefits. She would be expected to walk if she couldn't afford it.
what assistance is available to help her upgrade her skills and become more employable?

There are some state and federal tuition assistance and training programs. That is an entirely different screwed up system. In the end all that doesn't make much difference when many employers have started running credit checks and denying applicants who are behind in their bills, which many welfare recipients are.
can she get subsidized childcare if working or studying?

that is dependent on a lot of factors. This one you would have to look up based on specific circumstances of the mother and her location, and the availability of child care for needy families in the area.
 
You want some real solutions to fix the welfare problems, here goes.

SNAP: restrict it more like it's sub program WIC. Remove name brands, expensive meats, nutritionally valueless things like expensive snack foods and soda, and this will drive people who use it for excess rather than need. It will also still provide nutrition and variety for people who need it.

TANF: pull as much of the cash benefit as possible and make it more limited like SNAP. make it so that you can only purchase approved products that would be necessary for adults and children and cut the cash benefit to a point where it will still allow for some discretionary spending, but won't allow for full discretionary spending. Limit spending to things like bargain stores, Walmart types of places, and good will. if it will be used to pay rent then the rent portion should go directly tot he landlord.

Housing assistance: massively re-organize the HUD restrictions on housing. Allow people to find non section 8 roomshares and property sharing. I was living with a guy who had 3 spare bedrooms he was willing to rent out really cheap to his friend who needed it. It would have actually cost her more to move into a worse location that was supported by HUD programs. He was a nice guy who was willing to rent the extra space in his own home to a person in need, but she could not offer him up the minimal compensation he would have needed to cover the extra utility costs because it was not approved. He was willing to let two rooms in a very prime location in walking distance of many jobs and opportunities for 300 a month. Instead he had to eat the cost because she could not afford to give up her TANF benefits because she was actually raising her kid on her own. She had a choice to either stay there or to go to a HUD approved area which was way far out of the way from jobs. There are many people out there who are willing to offset some of their mortgage payments by renting out rooms in places which are too big for them. Instead it becomes a cost on them to take in someone at a discounted rate. Allowing for a discount payment of rent for a house share or spare room would let the people reliant on HUD find superior places to section 8 housing and draw them into areas of better employment where they can get on their own.

Social Security Disability: make a definition of what gets disability and stick to it. Start prosecuting doctors for putting healthy people who can work into that system. Also pull disability payments from cash to restricted benefits that are relegated to specific areas. Do it much like TANF should be. You can purchase items you need for survival, and they will pay rent directly. limit cash benefits severely. Oh, and also eliminate double payments where people are given extra money for food and rent in SS and then go out and get SNAP and other benefits to cover those things from other departments.

If you really want to encourage getting people off the system you could cut some tax benefits to employers who hire people out of welfare and disability. give minimum wage employers a reason to raise their employees out of areas that allow them to still collect benefits while being employed.

Also, if you want to boost employment you need to recognize we simply do not need as many people as we used to in order to get things done. Lower the federal full time work week to 30 hours. You would have to bump wages at the same time, but demand for work hours is shrinking while society is either maintaining or growing. Yes, i know this idea is going to cause pains as the economy adjusts, but we either need to lower population, or lower the expected work hours to provide everyone with employment. Lowering population would be easier with a good war or plague, but it is probably less painful to go through the growing pains of changing work requirements in an increasingly technical society.
 
Welfare ended 1996.

US citizens get nothing but food.

No TP
No healthcare
no home

that is why a 57 yo man died in Phx tring to steal copper from a live line Yesterday.

All the fault of CONGRESS.
 
If you want specifics you should go to your state's DHS or DSS website which lists the answers to these questions. however, they are mostly similar from state to state.




This depends on what type of welfare. You have to answer that question. If she has applied for SNAP benefits she would probably get around 170-180 dollars per person per month for food. If she is on TANF she will get somewhere around 450-550 a month. TANF does allow to be combined with both SNAP and you would also qualify for medicaid. if the woman is pregnant she would probably also be qualified for WIC which is part of SNAP. A good estimate would be that if she qualified she would get about 500-600 in food only benefits and the 450-550 in cash benefits per month.

Now she can only receive cash benefits for herself on TANF for 60 months, and most states have a requirement you have to look for work. If she loses her own personal benefits from TANF they will still pay the children's benefits until they are 19 or no longer living with the mother.



Her and her children would probably qualify for medicaid. She might qualify for section 8 housing, though there is a waiting list on that from what i hear. There is also a good deal of likelihood they can get help paying their utility bill.



medicaid is there, but it technically is almost free. i do believe there is a nominal fee of a dollar or two for a visit, and most doctor's don't take medicaid.



It is mostly irrelevant to the payment from what i have seen. It is her responsibility to find a place she can afford. There is an option for section 8 housing, but that has it's own problems if it is available at the time. the place where your rent becomes an issue in your benefits is Social Security Disability. It is there where you will receive a few hundred dollars more a month if you are responsible for your rent. For TANF it seems you get the benefits and are responsible for finding a way.


You can survive in most places on SNAp funding if you are just concerned with eating. You cannot buy lobster and expensive steak, but you won't go hungry if you purchase smartly. They decrease the benefits of all systems as you have more people to care for because it is assumed you will combine things like food more efficiently.


That has little to nothing to do with getting benefits. She would be expected to walk if she couldn't afford it.


There are some state and federal tuition assistance and training programs. That is an entirely different screwed up system. In the end all that doesn't make much difference when many employers have started running credit checks and denying applicants who are behind in their bills, which many welfare recipients are.


that is dependent on a lot of factors. This one you would have to look up based on specific circumstances of the mother and her location, and the availability of child care for needy families in the area.

So Welfare is as bad a regulatory quagmire as the Tax Code! Does a distressed person need to hire a welfare program consultant to get it right (like I have to hire an accountant to get my taxes right)?
 
Didn't read it.
 
Welfare ended 1996.

US citizens get nothing but food.

No TP
No healthcare
no home

that is why a 57 yo man died in Phx tring to steal copper from a live line Yesterday.

All the fault of CONGRESS.

A man getting Bug Zapped stealing someone elses property really has more to do with Darwinism than our Congress.

Thinning the heard. I hope he didn't pass along his defective DNA.
 
A man getting Bug Zapped stealing someone elses property really has more to do with Darwinism than our Congress.

Thinning the heard. I hope he didn't pass along his defective DNA.

Another guy BEGGING for the

GuillotineWallStreet.webp
 
Another guy BEGGING for the

View attachment 67145386

Well tell your President to stop pumping massive amounts of printed currency into the market via his head of the central bank if your so pissed at "the rich"

If youv'e got a brain in your head you know he's the best buddy the banks and financial markets have ever had.

Now if your'e serious about the guillotine nonsense please come to Texas when you start your "revolution".

So we can show the world what cowards left wingers in America really are.
 
If youv'e got a brain in your head you know he's the best buddy the banks and financial markets have ever had.

You think that could be why the Obama administration is run by bankers and their campaign was funded primarily by bankers?
 
Back
Top Bottom