The Condition of Our Union - Page 3

ARealConservative · 09-09-08, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

You seem quite the angry person. Maybe you wish you had slaves, yes?

You should really use the quote feature.

I’m going to make an assumption that this is directed to me.

Am I angry? Not in general, but when I see bull**** comments like yours, it does anger me.

You see, I find it ridiculous that we are half way around the country exporting democracy via the barrel of the gun when I could stay at home defending our republic via the barrel of a gun. If I am going to kill people over my views, I should start with people like you.

We have nothing in common. Your living constitution is a dead constitution to me and this is the war I would willingly fight.

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARealConservative

You should really use the quote feature.

I’m going to make an assumption that this is directed to me.

Am I angry? Not in general, but when I see bull**** comments like yours, it does anger me.

You see, I find it ridiculous that we are half way around the country exporting democracy via the barrel of the gun when I could stay at home defending our republic via the barrel of a gun. If I am going to kill people over my views, I should start with people like you.

We have nothing in common. Your living constitution is a dead constitution to me and this is the war I would willingly fight.

You sound like an Islamic fundamentalist. But it is not "living Constitution" I am asserting. I assume you feel that this country has fallen apart because of the actions of Bush and others (feel free to give examples of your greivences), yet my argument is that this nation would have already fallen if certain interpretations on the text of the Constitution were not made.

Tucker Case · 09-09-08, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeeJayH

maybe it was the words he used

Like "fit my needs"?

On any given day the rates could be lower or loan terms could do more to "fit his needs", depending on those needs.

You should know this if you are in the industry.

He might be in an adjustable rate i/o that is about to adjust to a rate that is higher than that of a current 30-year-fixed paying enough in yeildspread to cover all of the closing costs. Thus, even though his rate could be curretly lower than the refi rate, the net tangible benefits can still do more to suit his needs.

It may not match his desires, but on any given day it is possible that the refi could fit his needs, depending on the specific needs.

rightwinghour · 09-09-08, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

This is what I am saying. I never said all of it could be changed, I simply said that each generation has the ability to ammend it to meet challenges of the times.

This is the first time you've mentioned the amendment process on this thread. You've used words such as "evolve", "liquid", and "flexible" instead. Nobody here is saying that the Constitution should never be amended. We are simply saying it should be interpreted as written, and amended when needed. You keep throwing out the examples of slavery and suffrage, and ask us if we would like to go back to such things because that's how the Constitution was written, but that has misrepresented our position and gives us a false choice.

ARealConservative · 09-09-08, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

You sound like an Islamic fundamentalist. But it is not "living Constitution" I am asserting. I assume you feel that this country has fallen apart because of the actions of Bush and others (feel free to give examples of your greivences), yet my argument is that this nation would have already fallen if certain interpretations on the text of the Constitution were not made.

I’m showing you by example how weak the union is because I am a citizen of this country yet find you to be the enemy.

My grievances are the Federal Reserve. The Federal Department of Education. Separation of Church and State applying to more then just congress. General Welfare being a distinct taxing power. Anchor babies. Corporate Facism. The UN. Preemptive War. And on and on and on. My anger is that idiot liberals only started caring about the abuse of power when the republicans were the ones doing the abusing.

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARealConservative

I’m showing you by example how weak the union is because I am a citizen of this country yet find you to be the enemy.

My grievances are the Federal Reserve. The Federal Department of Education. Separation of Church and State applying to more then just congress. General Welfare being a distinct taxing power. Anchor babies. Corporate Facism. The UN. Preemptive War. And on and on and on. My anger is that idiot liberals only started caring about the abuse of power when the republicans were the ones doing the abusing.

Did you go to a public school? The rest I agree with you somewhat on, but you know how it is with the rich....what are you going to do? Perhaps you may find the words of Jefferson appealing when he said "A revolution should occur every fifty years in order to remove the entrenched interests."

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightwinghour

This is the first time you've mentioned the amendment process on this thread. You've used words such as "evolve", "liquid", and "flexible" instead. Nobody here is saying that the Constitution should never be amended. We are simply saying it should be interpreted as written, and amended when needed. You keep throwing out the examples of slavery and suffrage, and ask us if we would like to go back to such things because that's how the Constitution was written, but that has misrepresented our position and gives us a false choice.

That is my point, you say you wish it read as written, written when? Do you believe the Supreme Court should be abolished? They measure laws against the Constitution and use interpretive powers to do so. Thus, if a new court were appointed that wished to proceed with a literal translation, then logically many laws which provide liberties would be over turned.

rightwinghour · 09-09-08, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

That is my point, you say you wish it read as written, written when?

What do you mean written when?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

Do you believe the Supreme Court should be abolished? They measure laws against the Constitution and use interpretive powers to do so.

No, I believe the Supreme Court is necessary.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

Thus, if a new court were appointed that wished to proceed with a literal translation, then logically many laws which provide liberties would be over turned.

Examples?

Harshaw · 09-09-08, 07:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Tucker Case

A refi would be like an ammendement, though, in the vernacular of the analogy.

Yes.

Harshaw · 09-09-08, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlmorg02

You are right, but section 8 says: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

This is vague for reasons before mentioned. You guys are misunderstanding my position, I am not saying that the Constitution is meaningless, I am simply saying that the founders created a document that could be changed in times of necessity.

No, that a common misconception. This clause was intended as a limiter, not an expander -- to limit the exercise of the powers in the first 17 clauses ONLY to that which is "necessary" and "proper" to carry them out, within the confines of how they were understood at the time.

This is NOT, as is it often made out to be, carte blanche to do whatever "the needs of the time" may "require."

And YES, it CAN be changed -- there are TWO processes for amendment specificed.

Quote:

As before, if we kept to the oringinal text many things would be for the worse. I hope you guys women should have the right to vote, slavery is wrong

There are two actual Amendments which embody these ideas.

Quote:

and child labor should be illegal.

Perfectly capable of being handled by state law. Or, if absolutely necessary, by amendment.