The Condition of Our Union - Page 2

Harshaw · 09-09-08, 02:33 PM

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Originally Posted by tlmorg02

In Constitutional Law, areas of gray between states and federal jurisdiction, federal authority takes precedent.

The 10th Amendment says anything not specifically granted to the federal government is reserved to the states.

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Your last statment only serves partisan banter, as you contradict your whole premise by admitting that the right attempts to reinterpret the Constitution for their own purposes, like neocon foreign policy.

Nope, because I don't believe in a "living constitution" -- I believe the words on the page have unchanging meaning. I merely show the contradiction inherent in "living constitution" theory.

Me, I wish I could reinterpret my mortgage to fit my needs on any given day. But it doesn't work like that.

ARealConservative · 09-09-08, 02:36 PM

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Originally Posted by tlmorg02

The Constitution works as it should. Each generation is able to define it for itself. Many would rather we interpret it exactly as written, but if any would simply read the words of the Federalist Papers, one would find that the founders left the Constitution vague for one simple reason, if there is doubt as to a particular matter, the federal government trumps the states.

Hamilton and Madison, each on opposite ends of the spectrum as one Federalist (Big Government) and Republican, both agreed that if the Constitution too finely defined the limits of the federal government's power, the infant democracy would not survive. Coupled with the forsight to understand new challenges would arise to future generations, the founders created a liquid document that left enough room for the evolution of society and changing needs of the country.

I hate people like you.

To the point where I would go to war over it....willingly.

Tucker Case · 09-09-08, 04:20 PM

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Originally Posted by Harshaw

Me, I wish I could reinterpret my mortgage to fit my needs on any given day. But it doesn't work like that.

But you can refinance your mortgage so long as you meet the guidelines for refinance.

A refi would be like an ammendement, though, in the vernacular of the analogy.

rightwinghour · 09-09-08, 04:32 PM

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Originally Posted by tlmorg02

To further the discussion, you insinuate that if the Constitution is not able to evolve, because by being so it means nothing. Yet if it were not flexible, blacks nor women would have the right to vote. Do you think we should return to the original text and reestablish slavery?

Such actions are what I mean by the adaptability of the Constitution to the times. It must allow for change or society would fall apart as issues that may develop which the Constitution does not address would be unable to be met.

I think you are forgetting about the amendment process. The Constitution's original words need not "evolve" with the times according to the needs of society. The amendment process is there so that things can be changed, with the approval of the people. A living Constitution is no constitution at all, for it vests enormous power in a few men so that they can determine what free speech, gun rights, etc. should mean in their time according to their political needs or whims. So I say to you, if you want the Constitution to change, then change it. See to it that an amendment is proposed that reflects your view on your pet issue. If the country agrees and wants to adopt your view, it will be ratified and it will become the new law of the land. Don't interpret the Constitution as a living document, for when you do so, you make everyone subject to your views, and they never had a choice in the matter. The idea of a living Constitution leads to tyranny, and the tyrant may just be someone sitting behind a bench wearing a black robe.

DeeJayH · 09-09-08, 05:06 PM

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Originally Posted by Tucker Case

But you can refinance your mortgage so long as you meet the guidelines for refinance.

A refi would be like an ammendement, though, in the vernacular of the analogy.

nothing makes me or my clients happier than to refinance into a higher interest rate loan

yippee

Tucker Case · 09-09-08, 05:22 PM

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Originally Posted by DeeJayH

nothing makes me or my clients happier than to refinance into a higher interest rate loan

yippee

Who said it was a higher interest rate?

DeeJayH · 09-09-08, 05:29 PM

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Originally Posted by Tucker Case

Who said it was a higher interest rate?

maybe it was the words he used

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I wish I could reinterpret my mortgage to fit my needs on any given day.

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 05:46 PM

You are right, but section 8 says: "To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof."

This is vague for reasons before mentioned. You guys are misunderstanding my position, I am not saying that the Constitution is meaningless, I am simply saying that the founders created a document that could be changed in times of necessity.

As before, if we kept to the oringinal text many things would be for the worse. I hope you guys women should have the right to vote, slavery is wrong, and child labor should be illegal.

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 05:48 PM

AREALCONSERVATIVE,

You seem quite the angry person. Maybe you wish you had slaves, yes?

tlmorg02 · 09-09-08, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightwinghour

I think you are forgetting about the amendment process. The Constitution's original words need not "evolve" with the times according to the needs of society. The amendment process is there so that things can be changed, with the approval of the people. A living Constitution is no constitution at all, for it vests enormous power in a few men so that they can determine what free speech, gun rights, etc. should mean in their time according to their political needs or whims. So I say to you, if you want the Constitution to change, then change it. See to it that an amendment is proposed that reflects your view on your pet issue. If the country agrees and wants to adopt your view, it will be ratified and it will become the new law of the land. Don't interpret the Constitution as a living document, for when you do so, you make everyone subject to your views, and they never had a choice in the matter. The idea of a living Constitution leads to tyranny, and the tyrant may just be someone sitting behind a bench wearing a black robe.

This is what I am saying. I never said all of it could be changed, I simply said that each generation has the ability to ammend it to meet challenges of the times.