Basic Rights - Page 2

Lightdemon · 08-29-08, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeAreScrewedIn08

Boy, has congress abused that last sentence. Worse than x-ians beating jebus into their kids.

Sheesh.

That is the fault of the people, who decides who will be in office.

Lightdemon · 08-29-08, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katy J

So, we have rights until Congress takes them away from us.

I'll defer you to my last post.

Since it is the people putting representatives in congress, it is actually ourselves that takes our own rights away from us, if we so choose.

The most important thing about this however is holding our representatives accountable for thier decisions. The people must be more active in this regard because as was pointed out earlier, Congress has been making a series of bad decisions, one after another.

Katy J · 08-29-08, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lightdemon

I'll defer you to my last post.

Since it is the people putting representatives in congress, it is actually ourselves that takes our own rights away from us, if we so choose.

The most important thing about this however is holding our representatives accountable for thier decisions. The people must be more active in this regard because as was pointed out earlier, Congress has been making a series of bad decisions, one after another.

That's a good way to put it.

obvious Child · 08-29-08, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katy J

I've always operated under the assumption that we, as Americans, are entitled to do anything we wish until a law is passed to limit that right. Recently I've come to realize that many people seem to think the only rights we have are those listed in the Constitution.

The concept of rights is somewhat misunderstood. The only rights you have are the rights that can be enforced by the government (like a new car every year). The idea of "natural" right is just foolish. Furthermore, just because no one is stopping you or potentially stopping you, does not mean you have the right to do something. As Bodhisattva pointed out, Congress can make and rescind a large amount of potential rights. If the Judicial branch did not have Constitutional Review (which it technically does not under the Constitution, but let's ignore that for now), Congress could give and take any right it wanted.

RightOfCenter · 08-30-08, 01:09 AM

Ninth Amendment:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Jut because its not in the Constitution doesn't mean its not a right.

obvious Child · 08-30-08, 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightOfCenter

Ninth Amendment:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

Jut because its not in the Constitution doesn't mean its not a right.

And just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it is an actual right. We can pretend that a piece of paper gives us rights, but we're just pretending.

RightOfCenter · 08-30-08, 01:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

And just because it's in the Constitution doesn't mean it is an actual right. We can pretend that a piece of paper gives us rights, but we're just pretending.

Accept for the fact that it the Constitution does guarantee our rights.

obvious Child · 08-30-08, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RightOfCenter

Accept for the fact that it the Constitution does guarantee our rights.

Explain to me how a piece of paper by itself can enforce your right to anything. We can write down rights for anything. But until we can enforce them, they are nothing more then ink on paper. Rights only exist when they can be enforced.

Bodhisattva · 08-30-08, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obvious Child

Explain to me how a piece of paper by itself can enforce your right to anything. We can write down rights for anything. But until we can enforce them, they are nothing more then ink on paper. Rights only exist when they can be enforced.

The Constitution is not just a "piece of paper"...

It is an idea.
It is a philosophy.
It is a statement.
It is much much more than just a "piece of paper" and that is why the rights listed on this "piece of paper" ARE enforced. Get it?

obvious Child · 08-30-08, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

The Constitution is not just a "piece of paper"...

It is just a piece of paper. Without the American people to believe it in and enforce it, your list is void and null.

By itself, a piece of paper gives no rights.

Rights only exist when they can be enforced. And that is where the people come in.

The sooner people realize where rights actually come from the faster they can make better decisions on the concept of rights and how to apply them.