Jerry

The average premium for individual coverage is $4,400.

The average household income is $48,000 (source)

IMO, paying 9% of your income tword health insurance is or can easily be perfectly affordable.

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Lerxst was right
......Lerxst is always right
!Lerxst in 2012!

donc

Depending on his past history, or the existence of any pre existing conditions, preexisting condition will not be covered under most plans that are available to our hypothetical minimum wage earner.But your rught theres a good chance on his skating by without a problem.



Yes and sometimes they luck out and hit the lottery




Nah, your not, your just getting informed, who knows if I keep working on you, just might have you out campaigning for Obama in a coupe of months. fat chance,...huh

donc

I guess healthcare premiums are like gas prices, depends on where you live, here’s on from Clark County Or. (Medford) same age group your talking about, $1000 dollar deductible, $ 178 per month.

http://www.regence.com/docs/OR/rates/allPlanRatesOR.pdf

donc

Your stating average household income,….our hypothetical is single, when the term “average household income” is used I believe it refers to all adults in said household has there nose to the grindstone. I could derail this thread, and start another conversation on why families of my parents managed to support there families, of a mom, dad, five children, on only one income, but being a nice guy I wont.

WI Crippler

$4,400 a year for a single coverage health insurance plan? Does the average person have cancer or something? When I worked in insurance, I could get a single person covered for under or near $100 a month. Usually a $1000 deductible, then an 80/20 co-pay until you reached the maximum out-of pocket limit of $7500, at which point everything is covered up to a policy limit of 1 million. You have to use in network hospitals(except in emergencies), but other than that, its not impossible to find health coverage for the average person. And most people that have to buy these single plans are usually self-employed. Otherwise group health insurance picks up the tab for the rest of the workforce. If you aren't working, there is Medicaid, as well as probably some state programs available.

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"What Jesus fails to appreciate is that it's the meek who are the problem."- Reg

donc

I don’t think Jerry, or myself, is saying that it is hard to get coverage, it’s just that it is hard, or near impossible, to get “affordable coverage” when you are making near minimum wages. Which in my opinion is what most of our service industry jobs are becoming seeing as most of our decent paying manufacturing jobs are moving offshore thanks to nafta.

Jerry

The reason why I have the high ground in this debate at the moment is because I'm refusing to use the extreme worst case scenario as my example. That is what national health care supporters do. I don't believe that such examples should be used to establish public policy because 1. they are not a representative sample and 2. there are better solutions to their problem then billing the public.

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My bottom line on this issue is this: if your average able-bodied single person is really, truly having such a hard time in life, they should join the military.

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While I might stop and ask "why didn't Joe average receive basic trade skills in high school", I think that making the argument would to open a whole other can of worms.

Resplendent Independent

The problem for you is that this "worst case scenario" isn't a "scenario", it is a reality. There are millions of people in this country who work hard and they work full time and they simply cannot afford healthcare. Moreover, by not covering these people we are incurring additional costs in the way of emergency bills, disabilities down the road, and the social expenses of having an entire class of individuals that may miss work, lose jobs, or die because of easily treatable illness. Those consequences further put stress on our country by creating instable communities, families, and workplaces.

These are just the practical reasons for providing healthcare for those Americans that cannot afford it. Most importantly, I think it is the right and moral thing to do. I once believed that healthcare for the needy could be achieved by private charity, but thus far my life experiences have proven that notion entirely false. The only way to provide healtcare for those that cannot afford it regardless of religion, culture, or location is to have a national healthcare plan. It is the right thing to do, we can afford it, and we should do it.

Jerry

We have no reason to assume that the only reason they can not afford health insurance is due to the price of the policy. Even if there were, eliminating any and all taxes on medical policies, medical services and prescriptions, and imposing price controls on the same, makes more sense than expanding government into manging your private medical decisions.

I have provided evidence that the price of the policy in not the reason some can not afford health coverage, in my recent posts.

Who, exactly, are "they"? What is their education level? What are their spending habits?

Let's start there.

donc

Heh,heh, the high ground eh; I will rephrase that just a bit so everyone understands what you said. {I am being obstinate, because I refuse to consider that anyone could possibly have a better understanding of the un/underinsured poor than myself. Then you throw in a couple of straw men as punctuation points.}


First , our hypothetical wasn’t a worst-case scenario, remember, worst case would have been $5.85 per hour no overtime, our hypothetical was making almost 35% above minimum wage.

Your bottom line is that your average able-bodied single person should join the military, disregarding the fact that almost half of the those that apply don’t qualify for a varsity of reasons, and the ones that do get in, a high percentage washout in boot camp/basic training.

The fact is that the middle class is fast becoming what the poor were in the 1960.s_1970,s .it now takes two people working, to provide what one breadwinner did in the fifties, sixties, and the seventies, during that time if one of the adults on the family went down there was a backup, not now, of one gets sick has a medical issue its off to the bankrupt lawyers wit yeh.

You made a back handed slap at why don’t they get a trade, yes they could do that, but what about the trades that have seen their jobs go to China, India, not only manufacturing jobs, now a lot of high tech jobs are going as well.

This country cant afford not to have a healthcare safety net.