Are Democracy & Islam Compatible? - Page 2

bhkad · 06-04-08, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry

What, no poll?

Nope. What happens in a topic like this is that we only get the opinions of people BEFORE they have been informed by the resulting debate.

I wish there was a way to post a poll at the start and then a poll at the end of the debate to see if any of this produces any attitude adjustments.

Without the option of an 'exit poll' all it does is give readers a snapshot of how people believe (dare I say, "think"?) as they start reading the thread. This may give a false impression.

If the Mods or Admins would permit two polls to be taken I would be excited at the prospect of getting opinions now and then again after two weeks.

Without that option, I'd rather have no poll at all.

CMartucci · 06-04-08, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Ah, so you would have us believe that the reason behind the Islamic mandate to expand and dominate the world is directly because of the United States?

No. Where did I imply that?

niftydrifty · 06-04-08, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Are Democracy & Islam Compatible?

AMIR TAHERI'S REMARKS AT DEBATE "ISLAM IS INCOMPATIBLE WITH DEMOCRACY" - Amir Taheri - Benador Associates

I say they are not compatible.

how many US citizens are Muslims?

bhkad · 06-04-08, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMartucci

No. Where did I imply that?

Here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMartucci

I think you are working off of the false assumption that democracy in general is democracy in America. If we assume that democracy leads to a copy of America over time, then no, for Islam decries modern American culture.

I think the most obvious answer is that, without any efforts at modernizing Islam, the way it is written and can correctly be interpreted is that Islam is incompatible with ANY other form of government.

That is what Islamic terrorism is all about. The terrorists are trying to influence people around the world to trade security for liberty.

I.E. if the people choose a radical Islamic government they will have peace.

But they will only have purchased themselves the yoke of religious tyranny.

And that is why we fight the war on terror.

bhkad · 06-04-08, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

how many US citizens are Muslims?

Muslim Life in America - Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State

niftydrifty · 06-04-08, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Muslim Life in America - Office of International Information Programs, U.S. Department of State

cool! they must be compatible.

CMartucci · 06-04-08, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhkad

Here.

I think the most obvious answer is that, without any efforts at modernizing Islam, the way it is written and can correctly be interpreted is that Islam is incompatible with ANY other form of government.

That is what Islamic terrorism is all about. The terrorists are trying to influence people around the world to trade security for liberty.

I.E. if the people choose a radical Islamic government they will have peace.

But they will only have purchased themselves the yoke of religious tyranny.

And that is why we fight the war on terror.

I agree. I think I must have phrased my post badly.

I was saying that democracy does not, in and of itself, "create" an "America." In other words, a democracy in Iraq, for example, would not mean that in 5 years Muslims will be wearing revealing clothing, eating McDonalds, and electing peaceful leaders. So my point was, if we work off of the false assumption that democracy leads to modern American culture (the culture that Muslims hate), then no, "democracy" is not compatible with Islam.

However, like I said, I think it's a false assumption. An Islamic country could certainly be democratic. But just like Iran, nothing is stopping them from electing tyrants and continuing their culture.

So in sum, my point is, democracy will not change their CULTURE. Would you agree with me on this?

bhkad · 06-04-08, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

cool! they must be compatible.

Quote:

The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system.

Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components.

Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called 'religious rights.'

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to 'the reasonable' Muslim demands for their 'religious rights,' they also get the other components under the table. Here's how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

United States -- Muslim 1.0%
Australia -- Muslim 1.5%
Canada -- Muslim 1.9%
China -- Muslim 1%-2%
Italy -- Muslim 1.5%
Norway -- Muslim 1.8%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%
Germany -- Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%
Spain -- Muslim 4%
Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population.

They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. ( United States ).

France -- Muslim 8%
Philippines -- Muslim 5%
Sweden -- Muslim 5%
Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad &Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world.

When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions ( Paris --car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).
FrontPage Magazine

Continued at link.

niftydrifty · 06-04-08, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMartucci

I guess in sum, my point is, democracy will not change their CULTURE.

many of the crazy negative stuff attributed to Islam was around pre-Islam. in fact, it was much worse: Arabs used to bury their daughters alive. boys would marry their mothers if their fathers died. etc.

bhkad · 06-04-08, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMartucci

I agree. I think I must have phrased my post badly.

I was saying that democracy does not, in and of itself, "create" an "America." In other words, a democracy in Iraq, for example, would not mean that in 5 years Muslims will be wearing revealing clothing, eating McDonalds, and electing peaceful leaders. So my point was, if we work off of the false assumption that democracy leads to modern American culture (the culture that Muslims hate), then no, "democracy" is not compatible with Islam.

However, like I said, I think it's a false assumption. An Islamic country could certainly be democratic. But just like Iran, nothing is stopping them from electing tyrants and continuing their culture.

So in sum, my point is, democracy will not change their CULTURE. Would you agree with me on this?

For the sake of encouraging a would-be ideological ally I sure want to say I agree with you but there is still some ambiguity in your post. I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult here.