danarhea

With the closing of the thread on gun control, there are NO threads dedicated to this issue open in this entire forum, which is a shame, since I consider the second amendment to be extremely important.

Let's be civil in this one, because I am sure that people on both sides of the issue want to make their positions known. Let's not end up with another closed thread, but with an intelligent discussion.

I have a few friends who believe in gun control, but when push comes to shove the reason is because they are afraid of guns, will never own one, and don't want others to own one either. This is also unfortunate. For them, I would recommend one of the various gun safety courses that are around. If you learn responsibility, those guns become a friend instead of an enemy.

I don't want people taking my guns, but at the same time, I do respect their fear of guns. After all, guns can be pretty lethal in a wrong way in the wrong hands. If people cannot take the time to educate themselves in responsible gun ownership, I will not tolerate their lack of education leading to me losing what is my constitutional right. Here is a suggestion. If you are not going to learn responsible gun ownership, but are afraid of others with guns, you can always get a tatoo:

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rathi

The biggest problems I see is the binary nature of the argument. Both sides have the same of goal of protecting the American populace. The only argument is in how that goal is accomplished. Sometimes it look like people are more concerned with allowing more or less freedoms of firearms than ensuring the safety of the public. A lot of gun control legislation is written by people who don't know jack about guns. Meanwhile, the NRA refuses to offer advice using their expert knowledge of firearms when drafting such legislation. The end result is that we end up with miserable crap like the assault weapons ban.

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Edify_Always_In_All_Ways

What's wrong with the Brady Bill? I'm in favor of shotguns, even concealed handguns, but I still haven't heard a good argument for the need to own an assault weapon.

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rathi

The term "assault weapon" is a deceptive trick to try and link to the word assault rifle. Their is no real technical definition for it. It mostly refers to cosmetic appearances. The assault weapon ban prohibited a list of qualities that had nothing to do with the lethal capabilities of said weapons. It mostly banned pistols grips, bayonet mounts, folding stocks and other irrelevant stuff. The TEC-9 certainly deserved to be banned, but that because it was designed and marketed towards criminals. The law expired thankfully, but is a great example of gun legislation done wrong.

Korimyr the Rat

Not only is it based on appearances... but many of the banned features are actually safety features, such as barrel shrouds and brass deflectors. They're designed to keep gunmen from injuring themselves while shooting.

Well, let's assume you're talking about assault rifles for a moment. And let's assume that we are living in a Western industrialized country, where genocidal raids can be assumed to be negligible.

In that case, the only real difference between an assault rifle and the civilian-use version of the same model-- which tend to make good hunting guns-- is the three-round burst and/or automatic fire trigger settings.

As scary as such a thing would be in the hands of a lunatic-- or even a reckless or ignorant criminal-- they don't really make the weapons that much more dangerous. They don't improve accuracy or range. At best, they cause minor injuries to be more likely to turn into major injuries or deaths in the rare occasion that someone opens fire in a crowd.

Even if you could buy an AK-47 off the shelf at Sears, with a 10% discount for applying for the Sears MasterCard, the vast majority of gun crimes and the vast majority of gun deaths would still be caused by handguns, because handguns are in every way more convenient for criminal use. They are more portable, more concealable, more maneuverable... and criminal shootings occur in even closer quarters than urban military operations, where the longer barrel is a considerable disadvantage.

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LaMidRighter

This is definitely a first for me. I feel that I must get a multi-quote on all posters on the thread at once because the discussion has so many opportunities, so let's have some fun with this.
danarhea:
I agree that it is a shame the last thread was closed. I consider the second amendment more important than even the first for this reason, while legally your rights end at the other persons nose, realistically they end when you no longer feel secure in using your rights, it's easy to express ourselves as per the first because there exists no threat of death for doing so.......legally, but if that safety were taken away(by extremist or oppressive government) then the first at that point becomes invalid to said individual.

I agree with your thinking here, I have bolded the exact problem, most of the most ardent gun control supporters do not have any or at the least very little knowledge of weaponry in general. If someone chooses to be ignorant of the subject I can understand and would not care, except when they use that ignorance and fear to interfere with my rights.

Once again, I agree. To expand, the problem is with the above-mentioned lack of knowledge of weaponry, the common misconception is that guns kill, but in fact a gun properly maintained, stored, and used will likely never be used to take a life, the fear is projected incorrectly and I would argue unfairly on the object, and not misuse.

Rathi:
I think the NRA refuses to help with legislation for the exact reason that there is no real reasonable way to restrict a right to bear arms, I say this because criminals don't follow laws regardless of enforcement. My problem maybe comes from the fact that well intentioned people(albeit uninformed) allow people who have an agenda to persuade them that banning guns is the way to reduce crime, the people who start the movement are in it for control, the people who give them the power are simply afraid, IMO.

Edify_In_All_Ways:
I have a major problem with Brady. As Rathi put it earlier, "Assualt Weapons" don't exist, and most gun control advocates simply go after things that look scary, or......like machine guns, have a perception of being more dangerous than reality would dictate. One interesting fact is that machine guns, legally and illegally owned have only accounted for, off the top of my head, two murders since the ban of the 1930's. Assualt rifles, hunting rifles, etc. have cost many more lives than machine guns. Even though guns can be used in a murder, it still does not make sense to ban them or even suggest it, two reasons:
1) It is never a good idea to give a centralized government more power, to give up the second amendment, or even interpreting it down to the point of being useless sets a precedence for government to water down......then eventually eliminate other rights as well.
2) Ben Franklin said it best: "he who would surrender freedom for safety deserves neither" - Hope I quoted that correctly.

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Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

LMR

new coup for you

I own a handgun and I'm pro gun control

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======OBAMA
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And why does your tone suggest that you do not care about children?

Korimyr the Rat

What sort of gun control measures do you favor, or do you merely support current gun regulations?

quatrotritikali

I believe many people are afraid of guns simply because they never grew up around them...and never learned how to use a gun. I was raised in a rural area, and I learned to use a gun, especially a rifle and shotgun, as a child. I've been on several church-sponsored weekend squirrel and rabbit hunts, as well as hunting with friends and my father. I learned the proper ways to handle firearms, and am quite comfortable with using them.

I think that gun safety should be taught in schools at an early age. Not only would this serve to educate kids on firearms and how to properly use them, but would also serve to educate kids on the repercussions of firearm misuse and to remove the fear factor that guns have on many folk.

I believe that the majority of school-shootings are conducted by people who did NOT grow up around guns and who obviously did NOT learn to handle a firearm responsibly...as evidenced by their mass-murder of fellow students and school officials.

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bub

sure, if they knew how to properly use them, they would be more efficient at murdering students, wouldn't they?

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