For those who are afraid of guns - Page 12

LaMidRighter · 03-22-08, 01:48 AM

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Originally Posted by SmilesAndFrowns

I am Very Pro Gun, To the point that backround checks are required for all guns purchased be it shotgun, pistol or pre-ban Machine Gun, (i will get to the machine gun thing later) and classes and in depth interviews and backround checks are required for CCW's.

Welcome to the forum. And I have no problem with background checks, so long as gun control stays there. No extra taxes, gun-buy limits, ammunition purchase limits, size.......etc.

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First, someone said early to teach in schools gun safety. What do you mean? Dont play with it. Or do you mean how to use?

I think both. They are both points in an overall largely common sense safety practice when handling firearms.

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Second, I personally own several firearms that include so called "assualt weapons," I own an AK-47 mainly on the reasoning, that weopons are a techniloigal marvel. Besides that fact that going target shooting with your friends and family is just a damn good way to spend a day. Away from the TV outside have good health fun.

I agree, and am jealous of your collection(but just a little)

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Third, Machine guns are still legal. Machine guns made before 1986 are legal to own. They cost some money because usually once you get one you dont want to get ride of it. And to say some of these are military surplus. You can buy grenades too. And tanks, and arterllery guns. You just got to know where to look and have some money.

This one came up on another thread, I have to read up on the assault-rifle, full-auto laws in this country.

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Forth, "2 deaths from legally own machine guns since 1930" do you know you could buy an Thompson aka the tommy gun for 100 dollars then, legally, a matter a fact "Baby Face Nelson" was actually given his Thompson as a gift from his wife, she bought it from the hardware store.

Spot on.

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Seventh, Criminal look for easy prey, I.E. those that are less likely to put up a fight. Basicly does grandma and grandpa have a .357 magnum in there glove boxs?

I agree, most criminals say they are more scared of armed "victims" than the police. Also, I think that just the sight of a gun during a holdup would encourage a peaceful ending(i.e. the criminal running for his life).

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In closing i really want some feed back on this. Thanks for starting this thread.

Ask and you shall recieve. I think we all look forward to your input on this.

SmilesAndFrowns · 03-24-08, 10:29 PM

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And I have no problem with background checks, so long as gun control stays there. No extra taxes, gun-buy limits, ammunition purchase limits, size.......etc.

I agree with no extra taxes, but as far as gun-buy limit; I could understand that especially if your buying multiply long-guns and pistols. Only simple because if your buying 4 or 5 handguns or rifles i kinda would raise an eyebrow. Whats it really going to hurt to wait another month or two?

[quote=LaMidRighter;1057565451]

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I think both. They are both points in an overall largely common sense safety practice when handling firearms.

I really cant see how correct use of a firearm is good for a student to learn. I'm just 21 but I'm in the business of killing, thats just the Marine Corps. But I didnt really start learning gun safety officially until i was 17-18, from my father. But as far as an impersonal class room setting, its really not necassery to teach people how to handle a weapon. Teaching that guns should be respected and that they are TOOLS for killing, that also can be used in constructive manners, such as, target shooting and hunting. I dont want mentally distrubured kid to know what hes doing. I rather him shoot with out skill then shoot with skill.

LaMidRighter · 03-24-08, 11:14 PM

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Originally Posted by SmilesAndFrowns

I agree with no extra taxes, but as far as gun-buy limit; I could understand that especially if your buying multiply long-guns and pistols. Only simple because if your buying 4 or 5 handguns or rifles i kinda would raise an eyebrow. Whats it really going to hurt to wait another month or two?

The big problem is that a gun-buy limit is prior restraint. If you can pass a check to make sure you are socially and psychologically stable, then you are no danger regardless of any eyebrows raised. The same logic that says it doesn't hurt to wait also dictates that you will accumulate the weapons eventually anyway.

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I really cant see how correct use of a firearm is good for a student to learn. I'm just 21 but I'm in the business of killing, thats just the Marine Corps. But I didnt really start learning gun safety officially until i was 17-18, from my father. But as far as an impersonal class room setting, its really not necassery to teach people how to handle a weapon. Teaching that guns should be respected and that they are TOOLS for killing, that also can be used in constructive manners, such as, target shooting and hunting. I dont want mentally distrubured kid to know what hes doing. I rather him shoot with out skill then shoot with skill.

The point is that you would teach the proper times to use weaponry, where the legal protection of self-defense becomes invalid in your state, how to handle, and respect a weapon. Technique and other issues can and should be excluded, however, because of what you have adressed, that can be learned later anyway.

TurtleDude · 03-25-08, 07:49 AM

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The big problem is that a gun-buy limit is prior restraint. If you can pass a check to make sure you are socially and psychologically stable, then you are no danger regardless of any eyebrows raised. The same logic that says it doesn't hurt to wait also dictates that you will accumulate the weapons eventually anyway.

The point is that you would teach the proper times to use weaponry, where the legal protection of self-defense becomes invalid in your state, how to handle, and respect a weapon. Technique and other issues can and should be excluded, however, because of what you have adressed, that can be learned later anyway.

Under current federal law-If you buy more than one handgun from the SAME dealer within FIVE business days, the DEALER is required by LAW to fill out a MULTIPLE PURCHASE FORM and send that to the ATF office.

So when BillyBob Strawman goes into Joe's Gun Shop and buys Four Jennings POS 25 caliber pistols (the ones that come with a coupon for a ski mask or half a pair of nylons) the ATF is notified of that and can inquire as to why BBS is stocking up on junk like that

LaMidRighter · 03-26-08, 02:09 AM

[quote=TurtleDude;1057567956]

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Originally Posted by LaMidRighter

Under current federal law-If you buy more than one handgun from the SAME dealer within FIVE business days, the DEALER is required by LAW to fill out a MULTIPLE PURCHASE FORM and send that to the ATF office.

So when BillyBob Strawman goes into Joe's Gun Shop and buys Four Jennings POS 25 caliber pistols (the ones that come with a coupon for a ski mask or half a pair of nylons) the ATF is notified of that and can inquire as to why BBS is stocking up on junk like that

I can see a point on junk guns raising red flags. Still, law enforcement could do a better job on the local level than the ATF I would think, considering they would know the criminals or gun dealer better in most locations.

TurtleDude · 03-26-08, 07:57 AM

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Originally Posted by TurtleDude

I can see a point on junk guns raising red flags. Still, law enforcement could do a better job on the local level than the ATF I would think, considering they would know the criminals or gun dealer better in most locations.

True-I have no problem with the ATF notifying local law enforcement. If someone buys a dozen junk guns it certainly raises questions. If a guy who is a well known competition shooter or collector buys 3 Rock River Limited Match 45's that certainly doesn't raise the same suspicions as some guy buying 4-5 ravens or brycos at 68 bucks a pop.

SmilesAndFrowns · 03-27-08, 07:48 AM

I think the limit is a good idea. Maybe it should be more specific and more local. For instance like you said local law enforcement should handle it. Because more then likely they know the dealer and the know the gun collector be it they are in the area and can find out whats up. I cant see your mass murder buy 3 ar-15s. Its not realitic, but buying some cheap Hi-point pistols i can see that.

LaMidRighter · 03-27-08, 11:37 AM

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Originally Posted by SmilesAndFrowns

I think the limit is a good idea. Maybe it should be more specific and more local. For instance like you said local law enforcement should handle it. Because more then likely they know the dealer and the know the gun collector be it they are in the area and can find out whats up. I cant see your mass murder buy 3 ar-15s. Its not realitic, but buying some cheap Hi-point pistols i can see that.

I don't mind a limit being imposed if there is a reasonable suspicion of the purchase, I have two requirements that need to be satisfied for me to be satisfied:
1) Due process and information gathering must be followed explicitly
2) If the multi-gun sale is denied, the reasons must be stated clearly in writing and fully explained to the purchaser.

scourge99 · 03-27-08, 12:06 PM

I don't see a difference in buying one gun or 500. It only takes one gun to kill the same amount of people as 500 guns.

If joe bob buys 5 junk guns it doesn't make him more likely to kill more people. One gun can do the same as 5.

alphieb · 03-27-08, 12:13 PM

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danarhea;1057534342

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I have a few friends who believe in gun control, but when push comes to shove the reason is because they are afraid of guns, will never own one, and don't want others to own one either. This is also unfortunate. For them, I would recommend one of the various gun safety courses that are around. If you learn responsibility, those guns become a friend instead of an enemy.

Sometimes, they have people in their homes with access to them that are not responsible. That is how they end up in the wrong hands. Gangs are killing each other daily.