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Thread: The Powers of Government ...

  1. #11
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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    I understand the difference between the 2 as mentioned in USC, and think the distinction is fair enough.

    If there is going to be a government, taxes are necessary IMO. I think how the taxes are spent is at least as important as how the taxes are collected.
    yes government needs taxes to operate, and government should only spend money on the things they were delegated powers over, but we know the federal government is outside on doing that.


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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    ... are delimited by the Constitution, including the Bill of Rights.

    The interpretation of those "limits" is defined by the Judiciary (that is the various courts and the Supreme Court).

    There is no variation in the above documents, whereas there are Great Variations in terms of their interpretation. Which are more or less large depending upon the prevailing sentiment.

    In fact, some think interpretation (of the Constitution) is historical in nature and thus passes in waves; changing every thirty of forty years and largely depending upon the nature of the Supreme Court. That is, whether the laws politicians pass by nature are consistent with - or not - the Constitution.

    So far, so good - no great evil has been done. But evil is in the eye of the beholder.

    And anyone with an "eye" for Social Democracy will say that the US is one of the most inequitable and unfair nations on earth.

    Whyzzat?

    Generally because the fruit of one's labor, revenue, are taxed and returned as "government services" is not sufficiently equitable. Meaning what? Meaning that they are not fair and impartial. (More than half of discretionary Federal Budget goes to just the DoD!)

    Beyond this general explanation, we delve into the nature of work, how it is compensated and whether that compensation has especially favored one group (workers) over another (producer-owners). How is that measured? In terms of after-tax revenues ...


    " The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains !! "

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    The Constituiton is written in plain English, so its interpretation is as set in stone as it was the day it was ratified.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The Constituiton is written in plain English, so its interpretation is as set in stone as it was the day it was ratified.
    Quite right! And it reflects a mentality of that epoch as well. Stop harping about the Constitution!

    It's a good foundation but it is outdated and needs some serious revisions to bring America up to a status as a Social Democracy of and by the people - and not a bunch of rich plutocrats ... !
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    So the first thing you do is try and limit the pot of funding we debate about. Sorry, not going to let you go there. Most of the people didn't ask for money to be discretionary or non-discretionary. But the smart people know that non-discretionary is where liberals get all their power. That's why they like to ignore it, as untouchable.
    Yes, and so?

    What do you see as a "definitive solution". Come on, but you thinking-cap on!
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    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    " The Proletarians have nothing to lose but their chains !! "

    VYSA VLAST' NARODU !!

    The Constituiton is written in plain English, so its interpretation is as set in stone as it was the day it was ratified.

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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Yes, and so?

    What do you see as a "definitive solution". Come on, but you thinking-cap on!
    __________
    That's not the playing field I'm going to debate on. There is a total budget for the US government; you don't get to carve out over half of it, and say there's no discussion here.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Quite right! And it reflects a mentality of that epoch as well. Stop harping about the Constitution!

    It's a good foundation but it is outdated and needs some serious revisions to bring America up to a status as a Social Democracy of and by the people - and not a bunch of rich plutocrats ... !
    Whats outdatded is the pro-totalitarian Govt forced social justice clap trap youv'e been prattling on about.

    The US Constitution ( you live in FRANCE ) is a revolutionary document filled with principles that are timeless and principles that tend to intimidate people who are too weak and delicate to exist without total Govt influence in their lives.

    Its evolutionary as far as its limits on Govt go and if it could just be changed based on the whims of those who either misunderstand it and or who seek to undermine it it wouldn't be a Constiution anymore.

    Just a piece of wortthless paper.

    One things for sure, the framers sure saw you and people like you coming. People that are compelled by desructive emotional arguments. People that are petty enough and foolish enough to allow themselves to be influenced by envy.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Quite right! And it reflects a mentality of that epoch as well. Stop harping about the Constitution!

    It's a good foundation but it is outdated and needs some serious revisions to bring America up to a status as a Social Democracy of and by the people - and not a bunch of rich plutocrats ... !
    Just curious as to how you see the mentality of THIS epoch?

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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Whats outdatded is the pro-totalitarian Govt forced social justice clap trap youv'e been prattling on about.

    The US Constitution ( you live in FRANCE ) is a revolutionary document filled with principles that are timeless and principles that tend to intimidate people who are too weak and delicate to exist without total Govt influence in their lives.

    Its evolutionary as far as its limits on Govt go and if it could just be changed based on the whims of those who either misunderstand it and or who seek to undermine it it wouldn't be a Constiution anymore.

    Just a piece of wortthless paper.

    One things for sure, the framers sure saw you and people like you coming. People that are compelled by desructive emotional arguments. People that are petty enough and foolish enough to allow themselves to be influenced by envy.
    Oh, cut the pathetic emotional blather! This is a debate forum!!!!!

    Yes, the Constitution is a great document, but it is dated. (More than two and a quarter centuries old!)

    It is NOT the bible. It is NOT cast in concrete.

    Furthermore, the Bill of Rights was one "revision" of the text to define further of what our freedoms actually consists. And some people (like me) think it needs yet another one.

    One that revises:
    *National Taxation and without a Flat-tax Rate, but one that is uniformly Progressive, and with a very high upper limit. The 30% upper-limit presently is "gift" to those would like the US to revert to the 18th century when Wealth was owned by a select few.
    *The manner in which people vote without the antiquated "Electoral College" (that no other country on earth employs) but directly - One Person, One Vote and all votes tallied to determine clearly the winner without gerrymandering of electoral districts. The primary vote subventioned by the Federal government with a clear limit on "election donations" (say $10K per registered voter).

    I can think of a few others, but the latter above would help enormously for "Truly Free Democracy" and not one owned by a plutocracy of the rich ...
    ________________________
    Last edited by Lafayette; 10-08-16 at 03:07 PM.
    Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them; then neither persons nor property will be safe. (Frederick Douglass)

  10. #20
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    Re: The Powers of Government ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Lafayette View Post
    Oh, cut the pathetic emotional blather! This is a debate forum!!!!!

    Yes, the Constitution is a great document, but it is dated. (More than two and a quarter centuries old!)

    It is NOT the bible. It is NOT cast in concrete.

    Furthermore, the Bill of Rights was one "revision" of the text to define further of what our freedoms actually consists. And some people (like me) think it needs yet another one.

    One that revises:
    *National Taxation and without a Flat-tax Rate, but one that is uniformly Progressive, and with a very high upper limit. The 30% upper-limit presently is "gift" to those would like the US to revert to the 18th century when Wealth was owned by a select few.
    *The manner in which people vote without the antiquated "Electoral College" but directly - One Person, One Vote and all votes tallied to determine clearly the winner. The primary vote subventioned by the Federal government with a clear limit on "election donations" (say $10K per registered voter).

    I can think of a few others, but the latter above would help enormously for "Truly Free Democracy" and not one owned by a plutocracy of the rich ...
    ________________________
    First, your'e the one appealing to emotion when you base your reasoning on something as toxic and destructive as envy.

    Like I said, the Framers saw people like you coming. People that were prone to emotional and superficial arguments and prone to short sighted solutions that have destructive long term consequences.

    And what do you mean "our rights " ?? YOU LIVE IN FRANCE.
    " If no one among us is capable of governing himself, then who among us has the capacity to govern someone else ? "
    Ronald Reagan

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