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Thread: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

  1. #11
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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    "to ensure that they maintain fiscal and organizational stability"

    that doesn't sound like what the board is attempting here, but rather to cover for snyder, their real master

    frankly throwing the state's budget in disarray, which one of the politicians fears, would be appropriate in this case. "All we have done for flint," yeah like poison them
    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Slavery also doesn't necessarily have to be terrible.

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by Stopandthink View Post
    They ended up on the end of the stick they voted for since Flint's leadership had turned the city into a colossal cesspool of failure long before Snyder came along
    What decisions and policies did the Flint leadership pursue and follow that had the results you claim they are responsible for?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by FieldTheorist View Post
    Welcome to America. Oh you're poor? Your rights are theoretical. If you'd just be rich for a moment, your rights could become actual.
    Quote Originally Posted by FieldTheorist View Post
    Politics is 100% about poor and rich, depending upon how broadly you interpret those words. That being said, I'm not sure what kind of point you're trying to make by calling Michigan a "political space." Could you clarify what you mean?
    Quote Originally Posted by FieldTheorist View Post
    1.) Of course the rich have more "rights" (and by that I, of course, mean privileges). Do you think wealthy or even solidly middle-class neighborhoods have to worry about having lead contaminated pipes? I mean, let's take your own article that you present, we know for a fact that the rich have far, far more access to the government's ear. That's a privilege the poor doesn't have.

    2.) I'm talking about really-existing America, not the America that we would one day like to have.
    You appear to be trying to derail the thread topic.

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    You appear to be trying to derail the thread topic.
    Just adding commentary. You wasting time posting about it on the thread that I haven't posted on in a day or two, however, is much more likely to derail the thread.
    "The question is whether privileged elites should dominate mass-communication and should use this power, as they tell us they must [to] manipulate and deceive the 'stupid majority', and remove them from the public arena. The question, in brief, is whether Democracy and Freedom are values to be preserved or threats to be avoided." --Chomsky

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What decisions and policies did the Flint leadership pursue and follow that had the results you claim they are responsible for?
    I really don't even know where to start

    Warren Evans - part of Wayne County's pension problem? - Story | WJBK
    Sweetened pensions add to Wayne County's money problems

    Epic Failure recipe:
    Mix equal parts of fiscal incompetence, moral decay, and corruption. Set on blend for about 30 yrs. Enjoy with glass of water

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by Stopandthink View Post
    I really don't even know where to start

    Warren Evans - part of Wayne County's pension problem? - Story | WJBK
    Sweetened pensions add to Wayne County's money problems

    Epic Failure recipe:
    Mix equal parts of fiscal incompetence, moral decay, and corruption. Set on blend for about 30 yrs. Enjoy with glass of water
    I sked for evidence that it was Flint politicians who made decisions that doomed the city before Snyder came along - and you tell me about Wayne County!?!?!?!?!

    Do even realize that Flint is NOT IN WAYNE COUNTY and is over an hour away? Your response makes no sense at all.

    Try again - if you are able - and this time stick to Flint.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I sked for evidence that it was Flint politicians who made decisions that doomed the city before Snyder came along - and you tell me about Wayne County!?!?!?!?!

    Do even realize that Flint is NOT IN WAYNE COUNTY and is over an hour away? Your response makes no sense at all.

    Try again - if you are able - and this time stick to Flint.
    Whoops my bad, I have a bunch of resources and pasted the wrong ones. ( even though the storylines are remarkable in similarity)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/10/us...t-of-woes.html

    The Democrats’ Filthy Flint Water | Frontpage Mag

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by Stopandthink View Post
    Whoops my bad, I have a bunch of resources and pasted the wrong ones. ( even though the storylines are remarkable in similarity)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/10/us...t-of-woes.html

    The Democrats’ Filthy Flint Water | Frontpage Mag
    The NY Times article says nothing about decisions Flint leaders made to cause the economic downfall of their city.

    Th Frontpage article is from a far right wing attack rag that has no credibility and openly ignores decades of economic woes that hit the city causing the economic and political environment that Flint found itself in in recent years.

    I would strongly urge you to educate yourself on the issue. This will help

    Time line: How Flint's water crisis unfolded - Detroit Free Press

    and this clearly shows the State control seriously compounded the resolution of any problem

    Flint Water Crisis: A Step-By-Step Look At What Happened : The Two-Way : NPR

    Please note that the decision to replace the Water system and the State Emergency Manager were events that took place well in advance of March 2013 7-1 council vote you cited as your evidence.

    So what were these so called decisions that Flint leaders made that doomed the city long before Snyder came along?
    Last edited by haymarket; 09-24-16 at 04:19 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    Quote Originally Posted by Stopandthink View Post
    Whoops my bad, I have a bunch of resources and pasted the wrong ones. ( even though the storylines are remarkable in similarity)

    http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/10/us...t-of-woes.html

    The Democrats’ Filthy Flint Water | Frontpage Mag
    This article contains much information about the report laying blame for the crisis mostly at the feet of the State of Michigan - which Governor Snyder is the head of.

    Flint Water Task Force Findings: Michigan DEQ, Emergency Managers, Rick Snyder Criticized - The Atlantic

    Michigan Governor Rick Snyder, under fire for his handling of the lead-poisoning crisis in Flint, has offered two main defenses: First, he acted as soon as he became aware of the problem. And second, much of the blame for the crisis rests not with him and the state government, but with either local authorities or the U.S. EPA, which he says failed to catch the contamination.
    Now both of Snyder’s defenses have taken a hard blow from the panel he himself appointed to investigate the crisis.
    RELATED STORY


    What Did the Governor Know About Flint's Water, and When Did He Know It?
    The task force the Republican governor appointed delivered its report on Wednesday, a scathing 116-page chronicle of how residents of the state’s seventh-largest city ended up with high levels of lead in their drinking water—as well as contamination by carcinogenic compounds and an outbreak of Legionnaire’s disease. “The Flint water crisis is a story of government failure, intransigence, unpreparedness, delay, inaction, and environmental injustice,” the report declares at the outset.
    Taken as a whole, the report places the majority of blame on the state government and its executive branch. In particular, the report blames Michigan’s Department of Environmental Quality and emergency managers appointed to run Flint by the governor as the primary culprits in the disaster. It notes that Flint was not under the control of elected officials at the time, and confirms it was the city’s emergency manager who made the decision to switch Flint’s water supply. (For why that switch occurred, go here.) And it takes Snyder to task, noting that ultimate responsibility for Michigan’s executive branch rests with him.

    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: The State of Michigan has silenced Flint

    This is from the Executive Summary of findings in the 166 page report that reported to the Governor:

    Executive Summary
    Summary Statement
    The Flint water crisis is a story of government failure, intransigence, unpreparedness, delay, inaction, and environmental injustice. The Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (MDEQ) failed in its fundamental responsibility to effectively enforce drinking water regulations. The Michigan Department of Health and Human Services (MDHHS) failed to adequately and promptly act to protect public health. Both agencies, but principally the MDEQ, stubbornly worked to discredit and dismiss others’ attempts to bring the issues of unsafe water, lead contamination, and increased cases of Legionellosis (Legionnaires’ disease) to light. With the City of Flint under emergency management, the Flint Water Department rushed unprepared into full- time operation of the Flint Water Treatment Plant, drawing water from a highly corrosive source without the use of corrosion control. Though MDEQ was delegated primacy (authority to enforce federal law), the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) delayed enforcement of the Safe Drinking Water Act (SDWA) and Lead and Copper Rule (LCR), thereby prolonging the calamity. Neither the Governor nor the Governor’s office took steps to reverse poor decisions by MDEQ and state-appointed emergency managers until October 2015, in spite of mounting problems and suggestions to do so by senior staff members in the Governor’s office, in part because of continued reassurances from MDEQ that the water was safe. The significant consequences of these failures for Flint will be long-lasting. They have deeply affected Flint’s public health, its economic future,1 and residents’ trust in government.
    The Flint water crisis occurred when state-appointed emergency managers replaced local representative decision-making in Flint, removing the checks and balances and public accountability that come with public decision-making. Emergency managers made key decisions that contributed to the crisis, from the use of the Flint River to delays in reconnecting to DWSD once water quality problems were encountered. Given the demographics of Flint,2 the implications for environmental injustice cannot be ignored or dismissed.
    This is from the people that Snyder appointed to investigate. They assigned most of the blame to the State and he as head of the executive branch as well as the emergency manager and the inherent conflict in such a position as it destroys local government.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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