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Thread: Are Police Constitutional?

  1. #21
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades729 View Post
    After recently happening upon a paper titled, "Are Cops Constitutional," by Roger Roots, it has caused me to think about this topic. (http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm) He essentially says that firstly, there was no police force like we know today when the Constitution was written. Secondly, that many aspects of ttoday's police force are unconstitutional. I'd say that the 10th Ammendment allows states to create a police force like we know today for the most part, however I'm not sure about federal police agencies. Wanted to get other opinions as well as input onto how true or false the claim that police work is unconstitutional really is. Thanks.

    Well,

    1. The fact that something wasn't around at the time of the founding doesn't make it unconstitutional.

    2. The creation by states of police forces violates no provision in the constitution.

    3. Federal "police" agencies like the FBI are established by laws passed through congress.


    The only real meat here is the question of whether the vast network of agencies that are under the executive, but have many quasi-legislative (rule-making) and quasi-adjudicative (judicial) functions are unconstitutional delegations of power. Of course, that is rather moot because there simply is no way to have a huge country like America operate as one nation without executive agencies.

  2. #22
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    There was a time when Americans were leery of police power. The F.B.I. was not a slam dunk as it struggled to come into existence. Policing, and in fact criminal laws, were left to local jurisdictions. Many states, mostly in the west, did not even want state police. When President Kennedy was assassinated in Dallas there was no federal law concerning murder so the case was a state case.

    Law enforcement was restricted by geographical boundaries. A police officer in a town had no more authority outside of that town that would any citizen.

    Law enforcement was also restricted by which laws they could enforce. For example, when I was working it was illegal for a local police officer to arrest someone for violations of immigration law. Those laws could only be enforced by INS, Immigration and Naturalization Service, employees. Some laws were duplicated by state and federal statutes. Then the feds would generally have first right of refusal.

    There are those in the U.S. who want all law enforcement to be federal. In my opinion, that would be a disaster for America.

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    That's all it's meant to be. I agree. Somehow it became biblical, and it's authors prophets.
    I agree, and what gave them the right to speak for the people? why should we care today about what a group of assholes wrote over 200 years ago. the principles established in the constitution are gone anyway. yet today ignorant people still claim to support it and swear to defend it. there is not a person alive today that is a defender of the constitution. if there was , that person's life would end very quickly. or the person would pull there pants down and bend over, like the rest of the so called defenders of freedom.

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by hado117 View Post
    I agree, and what gave them the right to speak for the people? why should we care today about what a group of assholes wrote over 200 years ago. the principles established in the constitution are gone anyway. yet today ignorant people still claim to support it and swear to defend it. there is not a person alive today that is a defender of the constitution. if there was , that person's life would end very quickly. or the person would pull there pants down and bend over, like the rest of the so called defenders of freedom.
    Since you dont belive in the consitution, we should abolish your rights

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    My opinion- this question is just another reason why constitutions are just wordy adornments, unnecessary burdens. A constitution is an expression of the hubris and arrogance of it's authors(s).
    So you would prefer a free for all?
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    So you would prefer a free for all?
    (sigh)
    Hard to tell which logical fallacy is strongest here- non sequitur, strawman or reductio ad absurdum.
    A free-for-all isn't the alternative to a constitution. The Canadian Constitution was brought in by Pierre Trudeau in 1982- before that my rights were well protected by British Common Law. Even now, the Canadian Constitution wouldn't be called that by an American.
    Is Great Britain a 'free-for-all'? Unless the Magna Carta counts, which basically takes powers away from the King in favour of the landed aristocracy, there's no constitution in England.
    "How do I know what I think 'till I hear what I say?"
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  7. #27
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    (sigh)
    Hard to tell which logical fallacy is strongest here- non sequitur, strawman or reductio ad absurdum.
    A free-for-all isn't the alternative to a constitution. The Canadian Constitution was brought in by Pierre Trudeau in 1982- before that my rights were well protected by British Common Law. Even now, the Canadian Constitution wouldn't be called that by an American.
    Is Great Britain a 'free-for-all'? Unless the Magna Carta counts, which basically takes powers away from the King in favour of the landed aristocracy, there's no constitution in England.
    Perhaps "free-for-all" was a bit harsh.

    Our Constitution structures the government and it's relationship to the people. Without a document to lay out how the government is supposed to work it's hard for me to see how the United States could have been workable in short order given the complete split with England and the desire of the people to form a different kind of government.

    Certainly Great Britain doesn't have a Constitution but Great Britain also had 1500 or so years to evolve a government and I'd point out that during a good portion of that time the people weren't particularly well protected. Canada as well, was the beneficiary of the evolved British law prior to the creation of it's Constitution.

    Maybe it's just me looking at it from a US-centric viewpoint but I have a real hard time seeing any newly created, independent, modern state having any chance of succeeding without some foundational rules for it's government is going to work.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by hado117 View Post
    I agree, and what gave them the right to speak for the people? why should we care today about what a group of assholes wrote over 200 years ago. the principles established in the constitution are gone anyway. yet today ignorant people still claim to support it and swear to defend it. there is not a person alive today that is a defender of the constitution. if there was , that person's life would end very quickly. or the person would pull there pants down and bend over, like the rest of the so called defenders of freedom.
    A constitution is vital for any government to last longer than one generation.
    Roberts wrote: "If you are among the many Americans -- of whatever sexual orientation -- who favor expanding same-sex marriage, by all means celebrate today's decision. ... But do not celebrate the Constitution. It had nothing to do with it."

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Master PO View Post
    Since you dont belive in the consitution, we should abolish your rights
    what does it mean to "believe in" the constitution?

  10. #30
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Let the cops go on a national strike for a month, and we will see who gives a crap whether they are constitutional or not.

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