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Thread: Are Police Constitutional?

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well, the authors left us with writings on what they created and what they meant, however we have men who are not interested in the law, but wish to use power to achieve their own goals at the expense of others.

    how can a 20th century man, know more then the men who wrote the constitution itself?
    How could the founders have known what kind of path our country has chosen for itself?
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades729 View Post
    After recently happening upon a paper titled, "Are Cops Constitutional," by Roger Roots, it has caused me to think about this topic. (http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm) He essentially says that firstly, there was no police force like we know today when the Constitution was written. Secondly, that many aspects of ttoday's police force are unconstitutional. I'd say that the 10th Ammendment allows states to create a police force like we know today for the most part, however I'm not sure about federal police agencies. Wanted to get other opinions as well as input onto how true or false the claim that police work is unconstitutional really is. Thanks.
    I'd say that the 10th Ammendment allows states to create a police force like we know today for the most part
    This is very likely correct. I am 99.9% this statement is correct.

    I'm not sure about federal police agencies.
    Probably an exercise of the Necessary and Proper Clause. Congress, in an effort to ensure adherence and compliance to the laws it passes, may create agencies/bureaus tasked with the responsibility to investigate and prosecute violations of the laws passed by Congress. Unless, of course, one is to believe the framers were exclusively relying upon the honor system for obedience to the laws it passed.
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unitedwestand13 View Post
    How could the founders have known what kind of path our country has chosen for itself?


    if the founders tell you grass is green 1787 it does not change to blue in 2016 because a 20th century body of man say so.

    the constitution itself has not changed much over a 200 year span.

    the founders made it so that the constitution could be changed by amendments in its structure and government powers.

    it did not allow the creation of new powers for the federal government by federal law which have nothing to do with the delegated powers of article 1 section 8

    the federal government is not supreme over state governments..the constitution tells us that in article 1 section 8

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by HonestJoe View Post
    Some Americans seem to get far too precious about the Constitution, especially its literal and direct implementation. I suspect that if it was found that breathing was unconstitutional, youd have a spate of self-asphyxiation suicides for those unconstitutional police to deal with.

    They have the choice of either recognising the fundamental principles behind the establishment of your nation (of which the Constitution is only one part) or they will have to ensue pretty much anything invented or significantly altered in the last couple of hundred years and live like the Mormons. It would at least be a whole lot healthier.
    Without the Constitution, the state could put a gun butt through your teeth. So next time you besmirch the original intent of the Constitution, think twice.
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Are police constitutional? Well let me put it this way: If they aren't, then the Constitution can be toilet paper for all I'm concerned. Not all the topics, questions, and issues of the day can be referenced or solved by a 200+ year old document.

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoreau72 View Post
    I think you raise a very good point, but it is only academic.

    If the Executive Branch is charged with enforcing the laws written by the Legislative, how else to do that but by some sort of police force?
    That would be a federal police force.

    Police powers come with civilization, like access to air and water. It goes back to the beginnings of civilization. In the US, ours is based on English common law and while its limits are constrained by the Constitution, it's existence is assumed.
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well, the authors left us with writings on what they created and what they meant, however we have men who are not interested in the law, but wish to use power to achieve their own goals at the expense of others.

    how can a 20th century man, know more then the men who wrote the constitution itself?
    That's the 'heads' side. The 'tails' side says, "How could the men who wrote it know what would be needed in the 21st. century?"
    I like what you said about the constitution being the document whereby the states define what powers and responsibilities they'll give the federal government. That makes sense and should be unambiguous. Looking around here, though, there isn't a social, legal, political or moral issue that doesn't need to be examined constitutionally. In that sense, it looks like a ball and chain.
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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Without the Constitution, the state could put a gun butt through your teeth. So next time you besmirch the original intent of the Constitution, think twice.
    They can do that regardless of whether there is a written constitution or not and it doesn't seem to have magically reduced the incidence of those kind of abuses compared to similar countries without one.

    As it happens though, I wasn't besmirching the intent of the US Constitution, only the literal and direct implementation and treating it as the be-all and end-all to that fundamental idea of how America was meant to be. It'd actually argue that those trying to (ab)use the Constitution to back-up their personal political preferences are the ones besmirching it.

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    That's the 'heads' side. The 'tails' side says, "How could the men who wrote it know what would be needed in the 21st. century?"
    I like what you said about the constitution being the document whereby the states define what powers and responsibilities they'll give the federal government. That makes sense and should be unambiguous. Looking around here, though, there isn't a social, legal, political or moral issue that doesn't need to be examined constitutionally. In that sense, it looks like a ball and chain.
    the men who wrote it make it so it could be changed, but the process is not an easy one, and there is a reason for that...the founders wanted long drawn out debate on any changes to the constitution, so that all sides of the situation would have their say.

    under the articles of confederation the states themselves where their own masters and could do just about anything, the central government was weak it could not tax and it could not solve problems between the states.

    the states being their own masters fought each other over trade and created their own problems, like creating inflation because states printed their own money, they each had their own armies and did not work with other states in defense.

    to founders intended to fix the articles, but instead wrote a new constitution, fixing the problems the articles with that new constitution.

    the states gave some of their powers to the new federal government like printing money, the military, and the congress was given power to regulate commerce among the states to keep states from fighting each other, but congress was not granted power to regulate inside of the states or over the people, the states retained that power.


    what the founders wrote about the constitution and what it means can be found in the federalist papers, what an article, section and clause meant in the 18th century, should mean the same thing in 21h century.

    but today you have people who want to change the constitution but cannot get an amendment so they try to reinterpret the constitution to allow them to do things the constitution does not authorize.

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    Re: Are Police Constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blades729 View Post
    After recently happening upon a paper titled, "Are Cops Constitutional," by Roger Roots, it has caused me to think about this topic. (http://www.constitution.org/lrev/roots/cops.htm) He essentially says that firstly, there was no police force like we know today when the Constitution was written. Secondly, that many aspects of ttoday's police force are unconstitutional. I'd say that the 10th Ammendment allows states to create a police force like we know today for the most part, however I'm not sure about federal police agencies. Wanted to get other opinions as well as input onto how true or false the claim that police work is unconstitutional really is. Thanks.
    Synonym for police: Law Enforcement
    That should settle your question.

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